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Forum: Euroleague

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2014-03-25 21:22:47 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
NEVER SAY NO TO PANDA
# 6858
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqt4m75MgN1qbgu0jo1_500.gif
2013-10-06 18:22:03 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: EUROLEAGUE OPEN 2013
# 6686
Hi Andrey!

This is very good news :)

Unfortunately, teams are not added automatically, so if you have registered, Polar Bears will be able to play this season.

Best regards,

Angst
2013-10-06 09:27:47 Andrey Litvinenko (pblitvinenkoa)
RE: EUROLEAGUE OPEN 2013
# 6685
Polar Bears is going to play current season. How long should I wait to see my team with the others?
Thanks
2013-09-26 22:03:58 Vladimir Nipoti (angrypanda)
EUROLEAGUE OPEN 2013
# 6684
Dear gomoku players,

GomokuWorld and the Euroleague Organizers are happy to invite you to the open tournament “Euroleague Open 2013”.

Euroleague is the most prestigious competition on the Internet. Through the years many and maybe all the excellent players who achieved something in that game participated in Euroleague. The 3 World champions played it, all the European champions took part. Players who showed their abilities not only in the live competitions, but as well on the Internet and players who never played a live tournament, almost all the players who were more or less interested in that game took part in the competition.
Therefore, we invite you to attend this open tournament for everyone who is trustworthy and fair.

It doesn’t matter if you are young, old, great or less experienced player, gomoku or renju player or if you have never played EL, just come and enjoy the atmosphere of our friendly international community!
Many excellent players from the Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary and Russia already confirmed their participation.

We ask you to come with the most known nick.

If you think you don’t know nick Bano or he doesn’t know you, write your name +the most known nick on the forum of your country (vk.com gomoku, forum.gomoku.pl, hungarian fb group etc) and if your nick is not on this list: http://www.playok.com/en/contacts.phtml?uid=bano, contact my coordinators (angst, zukole, bayc, furla, gergo, attila, ants) who will check and confirm you. All other known players are allowed to play.
The event will be held online on playok.com on Sunday 29.09.2013 at 19:00 CET (21:00 Moscow)
The parameters: 7min per player, 9 rounds, swap2 rule.

How to get to the tournament room? Just log in to gomoku and at the top of the page you will ses "tournaments" in your language. Go there (If you want to play old version "click" on JAVA and then open the tournament room) and then you will see the tournament organized by "bano"


Hope to see you all there!

GomokuWorld and Euroleague Organizers .
2013-04-25 21:19:26 Vladimir Nipoti (angrypanda)
The Czech Republic
# 6679
The players of the Czech team for the match vs. Poland on 28th April 2013

Team A:
Anakinn
Gregi
Kedlub
Olgoj

Team B:
Bano
Ondik
Peroxid
Teovan
2013-04-25 21:18:34 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: The Czech Republic
# 6678
According to the agreement with Czech Republic representatives I hereby publish expected Polish starting teams:

Group A

Alicecooper
Crosslet
Puholek
Zukole

Group B

Adifek
Angst
Gacul
Muchaldinho

I invite you for this interesting match once again!

Best regards,

Angst
2013-04-25 21:05:50 Vladimir Nipoti (angrypanda)
The Czech Republic
# 6677
The players of the Czech team:

Team A
2013-04-23 23:00:08 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
Czech Republic - Poland; 28.04.; 19:00
# 6674
On Sunday 28.04. at 7 pm international match between Czech Republic and Poland will be played.

Both teams will consist of 8 players divided into two groups (A and B). Players from each group will play head to head two games like in a standard EL match. All other parameters will be the same as in Euroleague (10 min per game, swap2, no undos). Group A nad B matches will be played simultaneously, however cumulative score will be counted and decisive.

We are going to publish teams on Thursday about 9 pm (not including reserve players, however during the match 4 substitutions will be allowed).

We hope for the match full of nice good games and friendly games in friendly atmosphere.

You all are invited to be there to see this interesting event. And we believe it will be very good for gomoku popularity. Invitations for further international matches would be fully appreciated :)

Best regards,

Angst
2013-04-14 14:24:54 Ilya Muratov (befurla)
St. Petersburg Open 2013
# 6664
Dear friends!
We encourage you to join our annual tournament - St. Petersburg Open 2013 ( 9 r, 60 min +30 sec)
The official dates of the tournament are May, 9-11. The address of the tournament is: Russia, St. Petersburg, Dimitrov str., 9, Prokofiev’s library.
We guarantee some prizes: 1st place – 120 euro, 2nd – 75 euro, 3th – 50 euro.
Here is a list of players, who confirms participation:
1.Sergey Artemev (ASV777)
2.Victor Balabay (VKB)
3.Aleksandr Ezupov (Mordan)
4.Pavel Elizarof (Baumanec)
5.Oleg Kalnitskiy (lezha13)
6.Ilya Katsev (bromozel)
7.Denis Kachaev (Scapella)
8.Ilona Kachaeva (ilona23)
9.Michael Kozhin (loiso5)
10.Oksana Komarova (bodynerv)
11.Valeriy Kondratev (valkon)
12. Michael Kuleshov (М_S_K)
13.Andrey Litvinenko (nppopovich)
14. Michael Lomakin (mikle)
15.Oksana Matsuk (gaara23)
16.Ilya Muratov (furla)
17.Ekaterina Rumyantseva (rtkat)
18.Andrey Serduk
19.Vladimir Sinitsin (vladimirs)
20.Anatoliy Smirnov (Barbos)
21.Leonid Steshev (lucky115)
22.Vladimir Filinov (VFilinov)
We glad to see everyone, who want to take the participation of our tournament.
Here are some links for a chip hostels (10 – 20 euro per night): http://ostrovok.ru/hotels/?q=St_Petersburg&dates=09.05.2013-10.05.2013&guests=1&sort=price.asc&price=400-1000
We'll help you with any questions about your stay at St.-Petersburg.
For more information:
Tel: 89219476408 Denis Kachaev (vk.com/living_on_love)
Tel: 89037473306 Iliya Muratov (vk.com/imuratov)
Email - info@rustournament.ru
2013-04-02 01:51:49 Igor Eged (outiec)
last round
# 6656
Miss-click and Sex Pistols have walkovers, so they have -:- result
Slovenian Dragons 1 have +-, it is displayed wrong, must be some bug and we will correct it.
2013-03-03 17:19 Tatiana Volkova (1dalida1)
missing match Thundrestorm-Czech-Layback
# 6630
I'm soory. By mistake we mixed up the dates, we thought that we had to play on the 3rd of March. Can we replay the game and to appoint another date which will be convenient to our opponent Czech Layback B.
2013-01-27 21:19:24 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: CHEATING IN GOMOKU EUROLEAGUE 2011/2012
# 6562
Good to see a pleased Dragon:) Wich is the only good thing actually.. I share the disgust about these players. We happened to have our own "Tour de France", probably they think it's just "normal" to cheat. Considering this morality, I would rather not imagine how far got their "techniques" during the last seasons. I'm affraid we've just caught Al Capone with tax evation.. but again, at least something, thank you all for the investigation.
Personally, I consider the punishment rather very modest. I would probably feel very weird playing with these guys the next season. I hope that if there are honest players in their teams (and I hope so), they will react accordingly.
Oh and I don't see very clearly, why has Bulatovsky lower punishment than Muratov:)

Regards

Ked
2013-01-27 17:12:42 Ondrej Nykl (pandik1)
RE: CHEATING IN GOMOKU EUROLEAGUE 2011/2012
# 6561
Unfortunately I can't share the same sentiment as dragon. I wasn't aware of the things mentioned in the decission, for me it's shocking and disgusting. This is not some random act of a random cheater, this is a cancer, slowly but steadily killing gomoku. Instead of removing the tumor we will just take few painkillers and let the cancer continue killing us.

I can't see myself ever joining EL again if such people are allowed to play.
2013-01-27 15:44:55 Beniamin Costinas (blackdrag00n)
RE: CHEATING IN GOMOKU EUROLEAGUE 2011/2012
# 6560
AMEN!

You got yourselves a happy dragon. I shall spare you... for now! :D
Was getting REEEAAAAALLLYYY repelled from gomoku because of the likes of this Popiel and his crowd of cheaters. The only fair player in Lords of Cheat0 is adi. I can't say that I am sure 100% that they use programs. But I do have a gut feeling that they do...

While playing vs them last round I never felt so discouraged of playing gomoku. Thus I rage quitted (not a good thing, I know... but either that or going berserk on their asses :)) ). Should have not played at all, or just fill the corners while they (except adi) got their so "hard worked" wins.

Let us make two leagues in the upcoming years. One for those of us that enjoy playing and one for them cheaters and program users. I suppose it is interesting to see who's the best code developer (not for me... but who knows).

tl;dr

Dragon pleased!( http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yxlsiN0lNTE/TmqZqK_Oy1I/AAAAAAAAAHw/qEyXeJeVs4A/s1600/zodiac-dragon-pic.gif )
Pece out!
2013-01-27 00:00:05 Ales Rybka (autickocz)
CHEATING IN GOMOKU EUROLEAGUE 2011/2012
# 6558
Dear players,

I have posted the decision regarding the cheating in the season 2011/2012. Please, see the message # 6557 in "The Decission" part.
2013-01-23 20:22:54 Ales Rybka (autickocz)
Some words...
# 6556
Dear friends,

the common work of the committee is solving normal problems like "+/- points, fake nicknames etc." It is not easy to decide fast. Guys have own duties, families, jobs and waiting for comments is sometimes long. Don't forget that this work is unpaid and voluntary. During whole year guys have been preparing the rules to be as best as possible because you all know that even small bug is very fast misused, unfortunately. We started with "10-row-rules" and what do we have now?

The case "Drabosz" and the case "Lamaza" are different and very serious. If I should choose the priority of these cases, I would choose "Lamaza" case. If it is true, then it is very sophisticated cheating and more serious than "program cheating". I guess zukole has done a great job and we can thank him and I am sure that decision will be easier than in "Lamaza" case. It might even happen that the committee will ask the captains and the players for help by voting.

Btw, "Anti-cheaters" committee is very good idea, the experienced players can prepare analysis of suspected games and then everything will be faster and better. There might be more committees for sure. If anyone is going to participate somehow, then he (she) is very welcome. But I am not sure if you are going to do that, if you have time to do that. I left the committee years ago because I had no time and imagine, that Igor, Piotrek and Tomo have been working there from the begininng (I admire them).

We have been facing the biggest crisis here. So please, if you have any ideas how to solve the current problems, how to make the EL better and more serious, write me at rybka (a) piskvorky.cz. I have got some ideas, maybe good, maybe bad, but we can start discussing it.


I like EL, I like meeting friends and other players and I definitely want the EL to continue.

Ales Rybka
2013-01-17 01:25:42 Igor Eged (outiec)
Change in the EL committee
# 6538
I would like to inform you about change in the EL committee with immediate effect.
Instead of Andrey Sviridov we have a new member, Vladimir Nipoti (angrypanda).

Thanks Andrey for your work as a committee member and good luck to Vladimir!
2013-01-15 20:49:26 Adam Horvath (anakinnmoose)
RE: el
# 6529
Hey Zukol, I would like to see that thanks. adam.horvath@seznam.cz
2013-01-15 19:48:11 Michał Żukowski (zukolepl)
RE: el
# 6528
If someone is interested, I can send analysis by e-mail (they are on forum.gomoku.pl, but probably most players have problems with understanding the polish).

For me this case is clear, pity that personal opinion is more important than the evidence.
2013-01-15 03:02:22 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: el
# 6527
Gergo,

can you explain me why do you think involving more people and transparency is not right? Firstly, I think you can be only benefited by experiences and opinions of people such as zukole and ondik who has been long active in this matter. Secondly, even a player like me who has no experience with progs whatsoever can evaluate if he sees good arguments or not, I dare to say. If there are some. And I can't see no particular reason why not to add participants (captains) in deciding these matters. It's our competition after all. And I think we have right for some info if the credibility of this competition was questioned so widely.
I'd like to point out that there are no publicly decided standards according which the committee would then evaluate the chaters. So I have basicly no idea how the committee is deciding about cheaters whatsoever. I think a public discussion (not an abstract one) would be very helpful also in this way, to get to know the deciding process and to discuss the standards.
You write about 2000 comments in the private forum and difficult evaluating and seem to be offended by questioning the activity of the committee. But who can blame me for that if I can see absolutely nothing of it. All I have seen during the last monthes was a serious accusation and then several weeks literally nothing (exept of iec's: We do not find the evidences sufficient but we're watching it). I'm sorry, but this is a bit too long and too few for not beeing curious (after all, I found a funny rule: 13.2. The Committee has to decide about the punishment not later than 7 days after the end of the particular round. If the Committee does not decide, the Organizers of EL have the right to decide.. but that is not my point). But I saw the results of the analysis from Zukole on gomoku.pl and I saw also Drabost games myself, in Budapest as well as in the EL. And yes, based on this I came to a pretty clear opinion. If you think otherwise, I would be more than happy to hear your arguments - but that moves us again to the suggested open discussion; which is my only point which I'm arguing. Otherwise I can only ask..if we can't solve such an obvious case, how can we investigate much more complicated cases which are likely to be present in EL? And what signal do we give by that to cheaters?
Thanks for your reaction.

Kedlub
2013-01-14 01:58:08 Gergő Tóth (ycgergo)
RE: el
# 6521
Kedlub,

despite the Committee's work is not transparent, it does not mean that there is none at all – just to compare, there is almost 2000 comments altogether in the Committee’s private forum. Your opinion (and public opinion as well) about drabos's case is quite obvious, the only problem is that any result opposed to it would mean ineffective and incompetent work according to your thinking. Personally I don't think that involving more and more people just for their opinion and transparency is right, unless they have well-worked out and conspicuous proofs about current cases and ready to help in effective work in such cases.
Zukole's both accusations were very well made, so investigating every aspects takes more time than expected, therefore the whole evaluation and final comments cannot be seen yet. Currently his second accusation is still under consideration. Partly it's because I haven't had time recently, I admit it. I would gladly take some help in it, because one part is quite mechanic and the more data we collect the better decision we can make. The whole process gave me an idea about a survey (yeah, another one :), which will have nothing to do with accusing others but will mainly focus on player's goals, habits and customs in connection with gomoku, but again due to lack of time I have to postpone it. By the way, if you have such analysis or evaluation about drabos's or any other case, which I surmise so after your certainty, please do not hesitate to pass it over.

Kind regards,
Gergő
2013-01-13 23:57:11 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: el
# 6519
If you don't understand the difference than I really don't know how to describe it more clearly. But I try. I don't agree with some non address popular opinion poll ostracism. I propose voting only in case of clear accusation when it will be clear who is accused, why is he accused and which evidences there are. Then the players who feel competent can argue their point in the public discussion. (Ideally in Drabost case I would like to see at least the results of the analysis, used method, comparation of Drabost % and % of some of the best players and records of his live games or opinions of people who know him)
After that I think every player can make his opinion based on solid arguments and even if they don't know any program they can decide fairly.
That is why this needs to be open discussion and open investigation. The former system with secret investigation of EL committee proved to be ineffective and I don't see any reason why to keep it like that. If you do, please tell me. You can't avoid speculation about someones cheating anyway and this way it becomes at least clear if it's justified or not. We need to be transparent and open. I see the voting of captains as a bit extrem solution, but in our situation, considering the so far activity of committee and comparing to the other proposals, I see it as a quite reasonable solution. Also I think the result which leads to punishment should be probably higher then 50%, therefore I suggested 60. The committee can (and should) of course give its stance. I hope this way can also encourage people to be more active and maybe bring additional arguments and evidences.

Kedlub
2013-01-13 22:45:52 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: el
# 6518
First of all, I haven't suggested that Ondik took part in "funny nicknames" story. I'm just curious how should look such protest against cheaters.

Sceondly, I still don't see answer to my basic question. What competence shall be used in this particular case? Should I know all the existing programs to be able to decide what to do if this is clear what program could be probably used and what is the comparability? Why is so? Moreover, the fact I'm relatively weak player must mean I don't know programs? Taking into consideration current EL rules you should be aware of the fact that it is not so necessary as our role is not to look for programs, but to decide in situations of accusations.

I don't think that publishing all data is really best thing for such "investigations". On Polish Forum I tried to explain my reasons, especially to the accuisng one. It wasn't formal statement of Committee and this is why I don't treat it as necessary to publish it also here.

Finally, I don't really understand difference between Furla's and Kedlub's proposal. In my opinion there are only two possibilities until we won't find something better: 1) to establish another formal body which will be giving its recommendations to The Committee (let's call it Anti-cheaters Committee) including high-class and trustful players (chosen by Committee or selected in regular voting) that have enough experience and deep gomoku knowledge to be trustful in this matter, 2) survey in Furla's or Kedlub's way - to be decided later how it should work exactly (both solutions).

I mentioned it before - cheaters are cheaters - is Gonzalez someone's idol in Kurnik? I really doubt it, but he and his followers are still present. I don't believe that without formal exclusion they will stop their activities, especially if we take into consideration people well-known in our community that we can hear or read rumours about.

Best regards,

Angst
2013-01-13 21:38:58 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: el
# 6517
Too much emotions in the wrong direction Angst..
I have to agree with Ondik, the case of Drabost shows that we cannot entrust these matters to committee alone. You write that everything has been written. And yet I cannot find absolutely anything on this forum regarding Drabost and the analysis which made you decide. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's nice that it's partly on the polish forum, but I don't think that everyone can speak polish or go there regularly. And as I wrote in my first message, it's absolutely essential that we all can get the info and hear the arguments. Then everyone can think for himself if we play with cheaters or not.
So once more, and this time more clearly, what I suggest:
I encourage Zukole to publish his analysis here. Then I encourage anybody else who has something to say regarding this topic to say it here also.
Based on these infos, I suggest voting of captains. If there will be more than 60% accepting Drabost cheating, I propose to punish him accordingly.
I suggest that this should become the standard procedure of dealing with accusations of cheating. First the arguments and than the public voting.
What do you think?
2013-01-13 21:04:54 Ondrej Nykl (pandik1)
RE: el
# 6516
Angst,

Your (not yours personally, but of committee as a whole) incompetency lies in the fact that you don't know enough about programs and thus you're not able to draw a conclusion clear enough. As you say, everything has been written, everyone knows about the % of moves comparable with program. And still, you weren't able to make a decission which is obvious for most of us.

Just to be clear, I'm talking only about the drabost case now.

And as for my idle talk messages - maybe you should remind yourself how my idle talk messages here and on polish forum helped things to get moving again in this case.

Just because we're not able to find a proper solution - and yes, I implied with my previous post that I can't see any solution either, except the one I mentioned - doesn't mean that we should accept stupid solutions (kedlub and jezek explained it well). People can decide themselves who's a cheater and who isn't and then act accordingly. If you think about what makes people cheat - usually a prospect of profit, and the only profit in internet gomoku is some "e-fame". When the cheaters see that other players despise them and ignore them, their "profit" will be gone and as I said, maybe they will give up and leave.
(Btw, I'm aware of this "funny nicknames" incident since few people asked me about it, but I'm sorry to disappoint you, I wasn't even present at the match because thanks these things my interested in gomoku dropped close to zero)

Best regards,

Ondik
2013-01-13 19:39:09 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: el
# 6515
Ondik,

If you feel competent, please give us wonderful solution how to solve problems with cheaters. And what competence in this particular case would be helpful? Everything has been written. Everyone knows what was the comparability of moves with program.

The difference is that we need to decide and you just feel the need to write your idle talk messages.

We are trying to find some solution, but everyone knows it's almost impossible to prove using program. And every proposition is criticised. You propose to show cheaters that you don't want their presence. But who will decide who is cheater and who is not? And how you would like to show them that you don't accept them? By coming to their matches with "funny" nicknames? Isn't it at least the same childish as proposed survey?

Best regards,

Angst
2013-01-13 17:55:57 Michał Żukowski (zukolepl)
RE: Proposal
# 6514
Standing - http://gomoku.hu/index.php?view=article&catid=59%3Aeuroliga&id=87%3Aeuroliga-20042005&option=com_content&Itemid=64
2013-01-13 17:52:47 Michał Żukowski (zukolepl)
RE: Proposal
# 6513
that EL 05/06 is the 1st one because the data from EL 04/05 are not available Probably the results of all matches are here - http://forum.gomoku.pl/viewtopic.php?t=334. Regards to johnl :-).
2013-01-13 17:17:18 Ondrej Nykl (pandik1)
el
# 6512
Neither the proposal, nor the survey are good solution for the problem of cheaters. As we can see on the drabost case, EL committee is incompetent in this area, so the only real thing which can be done, is showing cheaters that we don't appreciate their presence in the world of gomoku and hope that they will finally give up.

However, I'm afraid it won't be enough and in the end EL will need to die totally, so that something fresh and clean can come in its place.
2013-01-13 11:58:14 Tomo Dernovšek (jezek_si)
RE: Proposal
# 6510
Thanks for your proposal. I think, you have written it due to the case Drabost and I answer as a captain of SD and not as a member of the Committee.

SD is one of the 5 teams, which have played from the beginning in the season 05/06 (in fact EL started one season earlier, but Committee took the decision, that EL 05/06 is the 1st one because the data from EL 04/05 are not available). We have 4 Slovenian players, the last one joined in 2008, who have not played any live game. We havnt had any tournament in Slovenia. Your proposal means that our players have to travel 500 or 1000 km far away to one tournament to have right to play in EL. Hello? It is true that at that moment we have 3 Estonians, who have tournament experiences, but if one of them stop playing, we couldnt change him with a new Slovenian player and SD would not have conditions to play in EL in 1 or 2 seasons.

Do you maybe have a solution for our case?
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