| 2018-03-21 18:39:40 • Madli Mirme (madli) | |
Dark Team : Estonian Penguins | # 7095 |
| Hello, we agreed to start the EL match of 5th round Dark Team : Estonian Penguins on Wed 21.3.2018 at 20:15. | |
| 2018-01-26 11:48:12 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst) | |
RE: Outsiders : Dark Team | # 7093 |
| Hello,
I hereby confirm. Best regards, Angst | |
| 2018-01-26 11:47:02 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon) | |
Outsiders : Dark Team | # 7092 |
| Hello, we agreed to start the EL match of 2nd round Outsiders : Dark Team on Sun 28.1.2018 at 19:30. | |
| 2017-04-13 15:01:38 • Łukasz Majksner (scammer) | |
Get Rekt - WayToTheSun | # 7084 |
| We agreed to play tomorrow (Friday 14th April) at 19:00 CEST. | |
| 2017-03-24 15:58:43 • Jan Purkrábek (czpaypurkys) | |
RE: Match date Outsiders - Czech Payback | # 7082 |
| I confirm this deal. | |
| 2017-03-23 21:28:01 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon) | |
Match date Outsiders - Czech Payback | # 7080 |
| We agreed to play on Sun 26.03.2017 at 17:15 Warsaw time. | |
| 2017-03-22 21:19:30 • Peter Jonsson (peterjo) | |
Match date luffarna - megalomani | # 7079 |
| We suggest to play on Sunday 26 20 00. In case piskvorky.net does not work, lets play at kurnik.
Peter Jonsson Captain luffarna | |
| 2017-03-21 22:09:01 • Ilya Muratov (wk_bkmz) | |
RE: Dasha and bears • Demons and Wizards | # 7078 |
| Agree | |
| 2017-03-21 13:51:43 • Łukasz Majksner (scammer) | |
RE: Thunderstorm - Get Rekt | # 7077 |
| I initially forgot about time change in Poland - the match is going to be played as agreed earlier - 18:00 CET (20:00 Moscow time; in fact 19:00 CEST / Warsaw time). | |
| 2017-03-21 12:40:19 • Alexey Lebedev (wkstealth) | |
RE: Trump Army vs Wake | # 7076 |
| I confirm (on 26th 19 CET = 20 Moscow time) | |
| 2017-03-21 10:00:44 • Tauri Purk (eurogomoku) | |
Trump Army vs Wake | # 7075 |
| Hi, we have agreed with captain of Wake to play our match on 26th of March 19 CET | |
| 2017-03-20 13:04:34 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst) | |
Dark Team - WayToTheSun; 26.03.; 18:30 | # 7074 |
| Hello All!
We agreed with WTTS captain to play our match on Sunday, 26th of March, at 6:30 pm (Warsaw time). Kind regards, Angst | |
| 2017-03-19 19:19:36 • Tatiana Volkova (1dalida1) | |
RE: Thunderstorm - Get Rekt | # 7073 |
| The 26 of March at 18 00 will be ok. | |
| 2017-03-19 17:34:54 • Łukasz Majksner (scammer) | |
Thunderstorm - Get Rekt | # 7072 |
| We agreed to continue our match on Sunday 26.03.2017 18:00 CET. | |
| 2017-03-19 16:19:27 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
Dasha and bears • Demons and Wizards | # 7071 |
| Hello Ilya, I propose 25.03.2017, 15:00
Mark | |
| 2017-02-19 16:48:17 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: Re: Igor Eged, One more comment | # 7053 |
| Oleg I respect You very much, thats why I write now a serious explanation of why I am against.
Your case is indefensible to me for one reason: You demand for Yourselves special rights, other than for all. And just to be clear, if Dasha.. did it maliciously and deliberately, it is a shame for them (the greater shame for Them that They have good players) | |
| 2017-02-19 15:28:17 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: Re: Igor Eged, One more comment | # 7052 |
| 1 we know the admin date and agreed to the terms and conditions at start
2 but in this round, we can not play in it 3 So the committee: force opponent to play another day 4 and if not, we resign PS enemy is evil incarnate because he wants to play as a date in the rules somehow I do not feel confident | |
| 2017-02-19 12:43:43 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon) | |
RE: Re: Igor Eged, One more comment | # 7051 |
| Dear Alex,
just a short reply to the questions: 1) no, we didn't decide based on any furla's speculations and the usage of a term misuse is a subjective opinion 2) hard to speak for everyone, people have their own opinions, some can consider it lack of maturity, some selfishness (as some players in your team would really prefer to have the chance of playing with strong opponents further, but ok they can still join other teams), it doesn't change much whether it's a bluff or not, also bears have used the same "threat", but these are not real threats to others, you are just hurting yourselves, the competition will survive even without teams that care so much about their pride or one, in their opinion, unfair loss than about the bigger picture and chance to play with the best. I personally didn't know and gave to it like 65%-35% leaving-not leaving. And one more remark. May be you have misread, but I want to point out there is a difference between "possible lack of good will" and "proven lack of good will", where it's not easy to prove the latter. You could have chosen to stay and rather come up with some good suggestions and rule changes that would prevent situation like this happening in the future. That's for now, my statement at least to some questions. | |
| 2017-02-19 12:11:05 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst) | |
RE: Re: Igor Eged, One more comment | # 7050 |
| Hi Alex,
As far as I understand your quite long and in fact reasonably looking message, there is only one argument against the Committee decision - misuse of the Rules by Dasha and Bears. I think what was written by Igor additionally to short decision of the Committee was rather his personal opinion not our formal statement, but the truth is that there was one major issue with this case - more or less visible lack of willingness to find a compromise regarding the match date from DaB side (as otherwise probably suitable date would be find and there was no case at all). Nevertheless, I wonder if you tried to look at this case not from yours, but from the Committee's perspective and to answer such questions as: should particular team play in any date that there are 4 players available, but maybe is not optimal from other perspective? even if there is no real problem with such a date, does it mean that it's not this team choice when to play? knowing that opponents can have problems with gathering full line-up, does it necessarily mean a need for agreement to play 3vs3 or 2v2? All this questions are related with sportsmanship, but for me this is a little bit different fair-play issue than some kinds of cheating, like using program, databases, giving advices or playing under false nickname. For some it maybe very similar, but in general I can't agree with calling it misuse of the Rules, at least creating a need for the Committee to react. Going deeper, we had few propositions from Oleg, but all of them were pushing DaB to choose solution suitable for Lords and creating pressure on the Committee, suggesting that maybe it should force somehow DaB to accept one of them, regardless of its compliance with the existing Rules. Moreover, there was a threat of leaving the EL brought to the table. We tried to use mediation, nevertheless it failed. At the end there was decision to be made. And in any aspect it was sure that this decision will be on favour of one of the teams involved. But in this particular case Rules are clear. Admin date was questioned, but I don't see any alternative solution to be proposed by anyone. I'm sure (also basing on personal experience) that teams sometimes suffer in effect of this rule, but no-one proposed anything better yet and I think that thanks to this rule walkovers are more seldom than it would be if two teams would be obliged to find a compromise. Moreover, you know few months before that once per three weeks your availability can be necessary (what is obviously not possible sometimes, but can't be treated as a surpise). What is the worst here is the fact that such a nice competition, with established prestige and long-lasting presence in gomoku community, is suffering with some personal (or almost political?) conflicts that could make people forget what is this all about - rivalry, but on board, thinking, but about where to put next stone, development, but of analytical skills, not the diplomacy or politics. I really regret that this happens and believe that your decision is not final and your arguments regarding live champions/winners presence in your team will at least encourage you to reconsider your position. I respect your consistency here, but let's forget about all what is around and let your players play - for community's sake. Kind regards, Angst | |
| 2017-02-19 02:29:40 • Alex Popiel (lolamaza) | |
Re: Igor Eged, One more comment | # 7049 |
| Dear Igor,
Dear members of the Committee, I have kept silence over some time now, as I did not want to get back to squabbles, which I would have done seeing all this. And so I passed my captaincy to Oleg, a person of much higher patience and decency than those of mine. Now, seeing his attitude and being aware of the negotiations and he Commitee's unreadiness to take actions and listen to common sense, I see I have made a mistake by placing this burden onto Oleg, as even he cannot bear what is going on, nor can he stand double-standard decisions of the Committee and has stated our readiness to quit the competition that we had found exciting for many seasons and were willing to participate in. For my part, I agree with this and now would just like to reply to your “one more comment”: >> During the process of investigation I have learned that the cause of this possible lack of good will to make compromises from the team of Dasha and bears So you operate with such notions as lack of good will, right? Does the fact that a team cynically misuses a rule (in this case, the admin date rule) and does not even try to hide their unwillingness to decide the winner in play not bother you as a member of the Committee, the organ created to enforce the rules and make wise decisions in case outrageous things happen? Is this correct? >> is that quite large group of players including members of Dasha and bears have problem with player lamaza as they still consider him unfair. Am I the team? It is about live – you do like this word indeed – players who cannot play, not me. Show me another one team with such honourable live players. Do many teams now feature people with honours such as vice-champion of the world? Or, maybe, Polish championship winners? Or, maybe, TGEC winners? We have them all. Do you want them all to quit because of Furla’s everlasting lust for power and his weird fear before my humble person? Do you know who Furla actually is and what his tasks from his Zhirinovsky’s LDPR party are (just check the Wiki on what it is)? Involve more and dominate them in order to make them vote in case of necessity. Running a gomoku group in vk.com seems to him the only field he can shepherd followers in. Another strong leader would indeed be a straw in the eye. And so a company launched several years ago, which involved quite a few people, some of them not having anything to do with me at all, some of them being threatened by those who launched it. Anyways, we all saw the “results” of the Committee investigation and now the case is closed. Now, back to my person: I have played in the EL since 2009 leading my team to results that none of the other competitors could show in this period of time, including three Champion titles. Why have you started to care so much of my fairness if this “large group of players” could have proven my unfairness long ago – if only they could – and turned to this argument now? Maybe just in order to motivate your approval of the cynical misuse of the admin date rule just 20 hours before the match? Why wouldn’t the Committee just acknowledge that the argument you have just brought forth is intended to withdraw attention from the gap in the regulations that the Committee has failed to either fill with an array of better solutions or neglect it in order to make the match happen? >> So here I have to ask the community, why haven't players/team captains really mobilized to some protest and removal of this player from EL rather than his presence now leading to situations like this. A good question! I will gladly hear more about it, see above. But, anyways, what connection does my humble person have with the misuse of the rules by Furla? Will Dasha and Bears agree to play 2 vs. 2 against logelo0one and loraficus tomorrow at 7 pm if I quit (our other players can’t play due to objective reasons already stated by our captain)? I don’t think so. They want a point more than they want to play. >> Also my advice to Alex, if you are really innocent Go to the Holy Church and prove you are one. >> and would like this general opinion to be changed, I suggest you should finally visit some live tournament and prove your playing level, I think that would be the best way to fight with all this. I don’t want to fight it, and I believe those who trust me need no further proof and those who don’t won’t be persuaded even if I top all the bills live. Now, my questions (1, 2) that go to you as a member of the Committee and, as you have been as kind as to give me advice, my advice (3): (1) Have you made your decision not to stop Dasha and Bears from an obvious misuse of the rules (and I know you are of the same opinion) only basing upon Furla’s speculations? (2) Did you think that “The Lords of XO” blackmailed the Committee and bluffed saying they’d quit if the Committee does Furla’s bidding? We did not, because allegations are allegations, and misuse is misuse. (3) Your as a member of the Committee's task is to run and moderate the season, follow common sense where rules don’t apply, get misused, or are not sufficient, and never to read tea leaves. There are special Sinti/Roma agencies who run the latter business. Again, I apologize before the teams we have played in rounds 1-3 for wrong pairings for rounds 2-4 because of our victories. We quit. Enjoy Furla & Co.! | |
| 2017-02-18 20:47:58 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon) | |
One more comment | # 7048 |
| During the process of investigation I have learned that the cause of this possible lack of good will to make compromises from the team of Dasha and bears is that quite large group of players including members of Dasha and bears have problem with player lamaza as they still consider him unfair.
So here I have to ask the community, why haven't players/team captains really mobilized to some protest and removal of this player from EL rather than his presence now leading to situations like this. Also my advice to Alex, if you are really innocent and would like this general opinion to be changed, I suggest you should finally visit some live tournament and prove your playing level, I think that would be the best way to fight with all this. | |
| 2017-02-18 20:33:24 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon) | |
RE: Admin date issue | # 7047 |
| Hello,
as the teams were already informed via other channels, the decision in short form is: The Committee has decided that Dasha and bears vs The Lords of XO match in the current round has to be played on admin date, Sunday, 19.02.2017 at 7 pm CET. Now my comments: It was tough to choose from 2 solutions, where each would hurt one team. Unfortunately the committee can use decision different than the one in rules only in exceptional cases. And in fact situations like this have already happened, although the protest wasn't possibly official in all cases or so vehement, also Alice mentioned some situation with possible lack of good will from, by coincidence, your team. If you mention now some unfair posts in some forum from a player from your opponent, we can check if we can give some pp or something for that based on rules, but that would be different case. Unfortunately the match date mechanism has its flaws, but nobody invented anything better here so far. So if you have some ideas how to change the rules, we are open to propositions. | |
| 2017-02-18 17:44:56 • Oleg Bulatowsky (logelo0one) | |
RE: Admin date issue | # 7046 |
| Dear Committee,
On account of your silence, I take it you have not made a decision that would shatter the grounds of the EL rules within the same season and/or round and hence the admin date and time remain the same. Otherwise you would have come with a statement in the Decisions part of the Forum. We will obey your choice. We will regret to learn about your decision and we will quit if we cannot find the 4th player, as we consider it humiliating to be forced to play 3x4, without our best players, against the strongest Russian lineup in the EL ever summoned in quest of and EL title. Thus, our team (a three-time winner of the EL with two winners of Polish championship and two vice-champions of the world on the squad, two of which not being able to take part on the admin date and time in this round due to objective reasons) will just disappear, as we have all agreed in case the admin date (and which is a lot worse, TIME) will be kept, before the publication of the post of 15.02.2017. However, back to the case: if the force of the rules within a season (even if they are obviously unfair) and the hazard of changing them within a season and/or round remains an obstacle, I would like to draw your attention to the following facts that directly apply to the rules that are in force and are not to be changed now: - The team "Dasha and Bears" obviously jeopardizes rule 13.1 (fair play, check the Russian forum in vk.com [https://vk.com/topic-19499145_34638538?offset=580]: "Нет, естественно мы им сделаем все в пику, чтобы им было как можно более неудобно" [benirvana, 17.02.2017, 09:54: "No, for sure we will do all the worst to them, so that they feel least comfortable"]). From the forum message cited, it becomes obvious that the disagreement on date and time was cynically stipulated on purpose. - Rule 5.2 clearly states that "A team match between two teams is played with two, three or four players of each team," without any further provision how many players MUST play in the match from both sides; nor does it state who, when and under what circumstances is to decide the numbers, that is, captains, players, or the Committee. Considering the above, I address you, as you perfectly understand the moral aspect of the problem: should you view it impossible to change the admin date (please also consider TIME) rule within this round (it will need amendments later on anyways for the purpose of avoiding its misuse), please review an option of enforcing rule 5.2's treatment that will help keep the match of at least 3x3 for the history of the EL. I hope none of you would mind watching it. Best regards, Oleg Bulatowsky on behalf of "The Lords of XO" P.S. Please consider that the lines of the EL team members have been decreasing drastically over the past years. And you will contribute to this process by letting “Dasha and Bears” misuse the rules and forcing one of the top teams out through outrageous mistreatment. Will your silence and admin date rule blind obedience make the EL season better? Will it raise the level of competition and trust into the Committee’s common sense? Had laws described and prescribed everything in this world, no-one would have invented lawyers and courts whose work is meant for the common good. Please take this into consideration. | |
| 2017-02-16 08:43:57 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: Admin date issue | # 7045 |
| And more
In one of the season because of an accident server match Daw-LO does not ended, I asked to play at a different time, You do not agreed to ! and now You want another date? (And case "we can not find date" vs real server failure is pathetic) Shame | |
| 2017-02-16 08:26:52 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: Admin date issue | # 7044 |
| 1 all players agreed to the terms and conditions
2 date of administration of the game is clear for all teams and formerly known 3 so I can not fault the captain Dasha and Beers, He has the full right 4 of course, a pity if You can not find another date, but no one can be surprised by date, and demands for special rights is out of place PS I was forced to play admin in the past not once, but did not complain of this, if the rules were fulfilled | |
| 2017-02-16 01:33:48 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel) | |
RE: Admin date issue | # 7043 |
| Hello, Oleg
I'm answering here on behalf of EL Committee. First, we are sorry for this delay with the answer. We discussed this situation a lot and have chosen option 4 from your list - try to find some solution for this case. I'm authorized by the committee to discuss concrete variants with the captains of both teams (Ilya Muratov and you), so we will discuss the situation tomorrow. | |
| 2017-02-15 22:37:54 • Oleg Bulatowsky (logelo0one) | |
Admin date issue | # 7042 |
| Also, one more typo in the last sentence, where I meant the last option (not the third) | |
| 2017-02-15 21:42:17 • Oleg Bulatowsky (logelo0one) | |
Admin date issue | # 7041 |
| I apologize for some typos: the dates are, of course, 2017, not 2016. | |
| 2017-02-15 19:04:03 • Oleg Bulatowsky (logelo0one) | |
Admin date issue | # 7040 |
| Dear all,
My team "The Lords of XO" and me are concerned about the upcoming match with the team "Dasha and bears". The reason for this is our complete inability to reach any reasonable compromise with the captain of the team "Dasha and Bears" with respect of the date and time of the match. While I informed Ilya Muratov about the inability of our 2 top players (namely adif and gergo) to play on the admin date as soon as I got informed about it (the rounds first weekend), all my proposals were turned down. With great respect could I understand why the opponent team was unable to play on weekdays because of work, it was somewhat surprising to hear "Dasha and Bears" refuse to play on the 2nd weekend and around the noon of the 3rd weekend using different excuses (extract of the personal conversation can be delivered to the Comittee) As the captain of "The Lords of XO" and on the behalf of my team, I will respect any decision made by the Comittee in this case. As a member of the gomoku community and participant of the EL, however, I would greatly await an exciting match between my team and "Dasha and Bears", pephaps the strongest russian team to ever be lined up for the EL, as it promises (a great contribution to the development of the online competition). The last thing I expect of the Comittee is that it will let this fixture become a bureaucratic farse and not happen not to take place due to objective reasons from our side and the objective reasons from the opponents side. One of the virtues most cherished by the european culture is flexibility. And so we would like to show that we are ready to be flexible. We hope that "Dasha and Bears" can kindly review their position and show their willingness to cooperate by letting the game to decide who is better, not who is luckier by providing a full line-up at a predecided time. We want to kindly request the parties involved ("Dasha and Bears" and the Comittee) to come to a decision which option will make better for the game. - The teams are scheduled to play 10:00-11:00 18/19.02.2016 (4 vs. 4) - The teams are scheduled to play 15:00-19:00 19.02.2016 (3 vs. 3) - The Comittee extends the current round by one week and sets the admin date to next Sunday - Any other plausible option offered by the Committee to solve this issue - The Comittee agrees to accept our step-down from the competition, recalibrates the results of the previous rounds, and takes it into consideration that none of the players of "The Lords of XO" will take any further part in the EL. We would greatly appreciate your feedback as soon as possible. In case the third option is chosen we bring our apologies to the teams we played with in the first 3 rounds who's coefitients we have affected. Sincerely yours, Oleg Bulatowsky on behalf of the Lords of XO | |
| 2017-02-14 23:58:43 • Oleg Bulatowsky (logelo0one) | |
Admin date issue | # 7039 |
| I regret that some of my remarks were taken by some respected members of the gomoku community on their own account. My intention was, on the contrary, to direct the attention of the gomoku community to the critical shortcomings of the "Admin Date" rule, not to accuse any specific team or person. Therefore, I have expected to receive a feedback that would deal with the general idea of my message, posted almost 7 days ago and so far left without any official response. We all care about the future, and now the closest future is the match that may crucially affect the final standings of the season. My team and I would in this respect be extremely grateful to the Comittee who is in charge of the competition and to the respectful captain of "Dasha and Bears" for their most careful assessment of the current situation with the fixture "The Lords of XO" vs. "Dasha and Bears".
Sincerely yours, Oleg Bulatowsky on behalf of the Lords of XO | |