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Forum: Euroleague

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2021-04-29 13:37:13 František Fňukal (payzel)
RE: To František Fňukal
# 7245
Yes, definitely - feel free to do so.
2021-04-29 12:04:47 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
My questions
# 7244
I have no further questions for Mr. Gorzecki. Everything I had to say to him, I told him. The fact that he himself is accused of foul play is another discussion, I have nothing to do with it.
I have big questions for the Euroleague Committee. My protest action relate much more to the Committee than to Mr. Gorzecki. I raised questions about corporate ethics, not cheating. These questions are entirely up to the Committee.
2021-04-29 12:02:57 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To František Fňukal
# 7243
František, hi. You do not have a correct understanding of how this conflict was born and developed, who said what to whom, who asked what from whom. And for what reasons. If this is interesting to anyone, I can state the correct line of events.
2021-04-29 07:10:38 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: To Dmitry Epifanov
# 7242
Dimitry I appreciate your renju play and analysis :)
but please get the facts first, otherwise it will be a shame.

1) For example, I played this open with M Kozin in a 2 minute blitz at the TGWC
Kozin made the strongest moves, so did I. Kozin asked for a draw.
does this give you a clue do i know it (since Kozin is an expert on it)?

2) If not yet, I have placed it live many times during the 15th Polish Gomoku Championship (also with Oleg)

And you wonder about the timing and coincidence with Yxin: D

Ask Kozin or Zoli - in this opening, if someone knows them, white basically has the only possible moves, and counting your variants 1/2 1/10000, etc., is sorry but useless

3) The only thing else I did while playing with tokyo was the weaker 10th move to check (I assumed he could prepare for the strongest variants, and not necessarily the weaker one)

4) By the way, as a trainer, did you practice this opening with Ivan? (I think I know the answer, but maybe it will interest others)
2021-04-29 00:09:42 Dmitry Epifanov (owen)
RE: To Pavel Laube
# 7241
Hi, Pavel!

> Plus this was not a public discussion as far as I know

At least three players told me about this situation despite I'm not playing EL at all. One of those was a Committee member asking me to write a few words about Ivan's skills because I'm his coach. Is it a public discussion or not?

And one more thing. I've made a brief analyze of one game between alicecooper and Ivan. Feel free to read it on and check everything written there. Two main facts are:
1. Ivan made several unoptimal moves; for example, he missed an easy win (easy for a computer). He played a very human move instead.
2. alicecooper made 100% his moves with Yixin's first line (including a couple of non-human moves) but lost mainly because Yixin's first line was too bad.
2021-04-28 22:59:18 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: To Pavel Laube
# 7240
Alex, if everyone would stop playing after such accusations in the internet, there would be no players left. Plus this was not a public discussion as far as I know, so no need for explanations whatsoever. My humble advice, just ignore the bullshit and enjoy the game.

I wish you all the best and hope to play with your team in seasons to come (after all, Ivan can take it as a compliment;) )

2021-04-28 22:40:44 František Fňukal (payzel)
RE: To Pavel Laube - 2
# 7239
Hey, you wrote ''By the way Ivan Danilin provided his explanations to the Committee''. I might have gotten this wrong, but did anyone from the Commitee ask you for any explanations? I get it, it is a serious accusation, but if the conversation was merely between you and Marek then whats the deal - being it me, I would have asked him, why he thinks so and which moves exactly were the "program" moves. But once he only contacted you and wasnt yelling this into the world, there is no way he could have unjustifiably stain anyones reputation or ''hurt their feelings'' and there is no need to make a big fuss over this. Marek as an individual can have whatever opinion he wants, he can contact the Commitee and only when Commitee finds something suspicious, it becomes a thing. (btw this whole string was started with your own comment)
2021-04-27 13:03:04 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Pavel Laube - 2
# 7238
By the way Ivan Danilin provided his explanations to the Committee. The first phrase is "I hate to write this." There are no more emotions in his message. Despite his youth, Ivan explains very thoroughly and rationally: HOW and WHY he won all these 13 games. Including two games with Mr. Gorzecki.
2021-04-27 12:04:54 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Pavel Laube
# 7237
Pavel, greetings. You take such great care of the young players. Please tell your opinion. A young player comes to the Euroleague, plays the first 2 matches (14 games), and after that he should give some explanations to the team-opponent and the public: why he wins a lot of games? He should give explanations: HOW he wins, WHY he wins? Is this a normal situation? This probably increases the popularity of the Euroleague among young players? When you were a Euroleague newcomer, and played the first 2 matches, did you give some explanations about your game?
2021-04-26 17:12:30 Lukáš Souček (dragonboner)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7236
I can only agree with my Czech colleague. Let's play some!
2021-04-26 11:58:13 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7235
Grow up people. Leaving the competition for such bullshit is childish. And first of all, it's a pity for talented young players in the squad.
2021-04-24 19:21:52 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7234
Please give us individual names. Who did I tell stories to?
2021-04-24 19:15:57 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7233
And I ask you to explain what you mean when you say:

--I only found out that he tells fairy tales to other people and to the gomoku committee.--

Who are these --people-- I've been telling stories to?
2021-04-24 19:07:17 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7232
Mr. Gorzecki, it's answer to your point 6.
PERSONALLY, we talked to you after the match. You didn't answer my next question (What exactly should I talk to Danilin about? - I asked you), you didn't say goodbye, and left the game room. This was the end of our PERSONAL communication.
2021-04-24 17:36:31 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7231
1. I was the last one to play tokyo_jazz, all my bandmates warned me that they felt like they were playing with the program, so was I.

2. After the game, on the table I wrote to tokyo_jazz only ':)'

3. On the chat I politely thanked the opponents team for playing also with ':)'

4. Privately I wrote to captain off_minor to talk to tokyo because the games look dirty, he asked what would I do or a protest? - I replied that it was too early (after all, I am a serious and logical person, without an analysis of games and confirmation, I will not accuse anyone of 100%)

5. I have not written so far due to lack of time and I decided that whether I publish the analyzes a week or a month later does not matter.

6. I am surprised that if off_minor had any requests - he did NOT contact me PERSONALLY, I only found out that he tells fairy tales to other people and to the gomoku committee.
off_minor: it's hard to trick someone in the face? make it easier for those who do not know the situation?

7. During the match I spoke politely, with a smile, without any hysteria, without any nasty words, (and privately) factually that I had doubts.
a) Therefore, I find the request for an apology bizarre.
b) I consider the attack on me, insults and twisted actions as an indirect confirmation of our suspicions.
c) The suggestion that I have hurt a player so much that you have to leave the Euroleague is simply ridiculous and hysterical.
2021-04-23 18:45:14 Igor Eged (ancientdragon)
RE: To Euroleague Committee
# 7230
Hi Alexey,
the committee cannot make Mr.Gorzecki apologize, nor there is sufficient material presented to us for his punishnment.
He just told you his opinion in a private message within the heat of the lost match, you didn't provide a screenshot for us either, this is a thing between you two as for now, but I don't see a valid reason to hurt the competition and make your next opponent, one of the top teams, lose the chance to play another good and interesting match, also you make your players lose this chance.
So it would be nice if you reevaluate your decision.

2021-04-23 10:39:07 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Euroleague Committee
# 7228
Mr. Goretsky declined to apologize. The Euroleague Committee took an indifferent position. I am put out my team from the season in protest.
2021-04-23 07:15:50 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Mr. Gorzecki
# 7227
Until Saturday, April 10, I always defended Mr. Gorzecki when everyone accused him of unclean play. But I won't do it again. After our match, Mr. Gorzecki accused my player - a young and talented Ivan Danilin, a Euroleague newcomer. Just like that, without a single proof. "Because it's 8-0", - Mr. Gorzecki said.
He does not know how to lose and same time keep calm and honor. The first reaction is a woman's hysteria. And he doesn't have the skills to be critical of his own game. If you are an experienced and well-known player, this does not give you the right to hurt newcomers.
You are a weak and low man, Mr. Gorzecki.
2021-02-27 21:15:16 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
sandra case
# 7219
Some time ago there was a DaW: CzP match, during which sandra over 3 hours in a public chat room insulted me, tried various insinuations, and tormented other players. s/he also came to my table and disturbed my play. Apparently s/he has serious mental problems (this is nothing new, after all)

11.1. It is forbidden to speak in rooms during EL games at the table, except players playing their game at the moment, captains of playing teams, members of the Committee. They should only speak in reasonable cases.
11.2. No comments about the games are allowed until the game is over. Especially comments regarding moves and time are forbidden.

I will ask those who voted in favor of this individual in EL: really?
2021-02-27 19:28:05 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
Wishes for Igor
# 7218
Igor Eged, get well faster, friend!
2021-01-16 23:09:44 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7209

As you mentioned me in your message, I feel obliged to comment on this, as in my opinion, it would be fair to make things more clear. I'm not sure what you meant by suggesting that I know you well, but I would like to focus on another aspect.

First of all, I voted "YES" as Dark Team captain, although my personal vote would be "NO". I was considering this case as relatively serious, for a few reasons, therefore I decided to consult it with my teammates (to be more precise - the active ones) and my final vote was based on their opinions.

I don't think this is necessary to publicly share all my thoughts about why I would choose "NO", but basically you are right that every case like this one is more or less "personal", even if finally we see the arguments on respecting the rules, etc. So every single case shall be considered separately.

It's natural that you analyze it from your own perspective, however others should rather see the wider context. You gave us an example of declared tournaments as a concrete loss on gomoku community side (btw. I think that we can't lose something that we don't really have, but it would be a separate philosophical discussion), nevertheless, I knew then about other declarations - regarding possible leaving the competition by some players, or maybe even teams, in case of your acceptance in EL as an anonymous player. Using your question on one million USD donation, how we can choose between you and someone else in such a case? It's hard to compare two players, but what if there would be 2, 3 or 4 players leaving? And what if it would be 1, 2 or 3 teams leaving because of you? You would rise the prizes to 20, 30 or 40 EUR and so on? I think that this is not an easy choice. But for me it was more natural not to choose someone who doesn't want (or can't, as you suggest) to meet standard EL Rules, in which non-anonymous playing is one of the core principles.

Moreover, I have no idea how exactly other captains made their decision, but I know at least one another example of a similar approach as I described above. So, if I may honestly suggest, I wouldn't take captains' votes that personally, as probably there are your supporters (or good friends as you called them) also in the teams that voted "NO", as well as not everyone supports you in the "YES" teams. It's obviously your choice if you decide to generalize, but I thought it's worth to mention.

Finally, I believe that a friend's role is not to support indiscriminately each other, especially if this is not in accordance with your beliefs. But I would expect my friends to be fair and communicating in an open and honest way.

Best regards,


P.S. One additional thing about Czechs. Maybe not everyone knows that I really wanted to join CPL, as I find it very interesting and hard competition (almost like IRP :)). Finally, I was not accepted, as CPL rules allow only Czechs and Slovaks to play, so it looks like they are quite consistent in their approach to the rules! I don't feel offended anyhow and I fully respect this. I need to say more - I am really grateful that they hadn't ignored me, but they took it (more or less :)) seriously and considered my request. I will just ask next year once again probably :)
2021-01-15 13:13:14 František Fňukal (payzel)
RE: The decisions
# 7208
Sandra, why all this bs and conspiracy. I told you the reasoning of my decision, now you're asking me how much does a b*tch cost through some artificial construct. Btw. ''How much money is enough and why?'' I like your question based on your own induced premise :D.

Oh, that has to be a misunderstanding, my argument is actually Rule 2.4. The further treatment of potential cheaters among known players is a case of its own and I admit a tricky field, that's why you keep bringing that topic up I guess. The Rule 2.4 provides a decent precaution against anonyms who have much more free space to cheat etc. As I said, I think no known player wants to get their reputation stained. I don't say that no one did it in the past, but the thing is we all know who they are and I think they paid the price for doing so. All in all, let's just not make more chaos than what we actually need to.
2021-01-13 13:30:20 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7207
1. Known manipulation method: choose a part and pretend it is a whole. Well, you tried

2. I made it clear 'in another matter'

3. It's obvious, some know, many don't

4. Not briefly, you used the programs long enough. You said because they exposed you.
But this is only a modest part of what your victims described: (example quotes)
'encouraged other people to meet very intimate'
'blackmailed into saying bad things about me'
'she enjoyed setting up numerous fictitious accounts and screwing players in'
and so on

5. Normal irony: D

6. Indeed, some people have told me that you have a strange and abnormal fixation on me. (no) sorry: no chance.
The only interaction is: you stop trolling and preferably leave gomoku / renju
2021-01-13 06:47:55 Sandra Jones (sandra)
RE: Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7206
Okay, it's time to address a new portion of allegations by our old man :)

1. I never demanded payment or another benefit from the PSGRiP and never threatened the PSGRiP to reveal any secret information. I would qualify as a blackmailer if I had done those two things at once, but I did none of them.

What actually happened is the public discussion referenced to by Usiek below. Everyone can follow the link provided by him, read the discussion, and make his or her own judgement. For convenience of the readers, I am posting the link once again:

When that public discussion was underway, I also had some private conversations with Usiek, the president of the PSGRiP, on the subject of that public discussion. Alicecooper seems to be alleging that I blackmailed the PSGRiP in those private conversations. To clarify the issue, I encourage Alicecooper to publish any private messages of mine and try to explain how he sees there any demands of benefits or any threats to reveal any secret. I believe I didn't make such demands and such threats.

2. Stepan Tesarik and Zoltan Laszlo indeed said I had done something that sounds like blackmail, but their statements actually refer to my recent offer of online tournaments with monetary prizes in return for a permission to play in the EL under my pseudonym. C'mon guys, no way can an offer of money or benefits in return for something qualify as blackmail. Everyone is free to offer anything in exchange for anything.

3. I strongly disagree with the notion that all captains who voted yes didn't know me well. Igor Eged and Piotr Malowiejski are excellent counterexamples.

4. The statement that I ''started gomoku 'career' by cheating people and played with the program'' is highly misleading because I never cheated while playing under known nicknames of mine. What actually happened is a few very brief experiments performed by me with programs in Bieniasze, the main playing hall on Kurnik, under totally secret nicknames created specifically for those experiments and used exclusively for them. I was a novice back then and simply wanted to get some answers about cheating by trying walking in a cheater's shoes. How strong are programs? Is cheating detectable by experienced players? Is it possible to cheat in one-minute gomoku? I didn't violate any rule, for there's no rule on Kurnik to prohibit using programs. Later I myself told people about those secret experiments and their outcomes, otherwise the community wouldn't know.

5. Alicecooper wrote on this forum about me, "This individual should not be admitted to the Euroleague under any conditions." However, a few weeks ago he wrote on this forum something very different, "If you play Euroleague with the camera on the back and the screen, I support it." Is it normal for Polish mature men to flip-flop like a landed fish?

Alicecooper, I apologize in advance for asking a personal question, but do you have a spouse or a gf? I'm asking because your overall behavior looks like that of a lonely man. I know a lot about psychology and want to understand the root cause of your behavior. This might help me improve our interaction.
2021-01-12 13:47:07 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7205
1) Stepan, you understand that the blackmailer does not write on the forum or publishes on TV, for example 'and now I want 100 euro, then I'll give you a break' :)

2) And I don't think that publishing private messages is good - even from a creature like sandr

3) as I wrote, it is enough for me if the EL committee asks
2021-01-12 13:02:38 Łukasz Majksner (ursuspl)
RE: Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7204
Stepan, the discussion was held on the Polish forum in the following thread:
2021-01-12 11:31:22 Štěpán Tesařík (czpayroxid)
Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7203
Can be the public objectively acquainted with the case of Sandra vs. PSGRiP? So that everyone can make their own opinion on the matter. Thank you.
2021-01-10 11:02:59 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: The decisions
# 7199
1) sandra likes to quote, let's see what others think about her (in another matter):
Stepan Tesarik 'Sounds like blackmail',
Zoltan Laszlo 'Although it may not be the oxford definiton exactly, but it does sound like'

2) I suspect that the captains who voted 'yes' don't know the past. Do you know that sandra started gomoku 'career' by cheating people and played with the program? This is confirmed and proven on the Polish forum. Imagine that, instead of apologizing, she later claimed that these were scientific experiments: D

3) This individual should not be admitted to the Euroleague under any conditions
2021-01-10 10:59:04 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: The decisions
# 7198
1) sandra likes to quote, let's see what others think about her (in another matter):
Štěpán Tesařík 'Sounds like blackmail', Zoltán László 'Although it may not be the oxford definiton exactly, but it does sound like'
2) I suspect that the captains who voted 'yes' don't know the past. Do you know that sandra started gomoku 'career' by cheating people and played with the program? This is confirmed and proven on the Polish forum. Imagine that, instead of apologizing, she later claimed that these were scientific experiments: D
3) This individual should not be admitted to the Euroleague under any conditions
2021-01-10 10:57:20 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: The decisions
# 7197
1) sandra likes to quote, let's see what others think about her (in another matter):
Štěpán Tesařík "Sounds like blackmail", Zoltán László "Although it may not be the oxford definiton exactly, but it does sound like"

2) I suspect that the captains who voted "yes" don't know the past. Do you know that sandra started gomoku "career" by cheating people and played with the program? This is confirmed and proven on the Polish forum. Imagine that, instead of apologizing, she later claimed that these were scientific experiments: D

3) This individual should not be admitted to the Euroleague under any conditions
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