Current round: 7
2021-05-03
to 2021-05-23

New registration

Login
Password

Forum: Euroleague

Back to forum list (1) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
2021-05-05 18:23:07 Sandra Jones (sandra)
Ivan Danilin's statement
# 7252
Here's the response by Ivan Danilin himself to the news that Alicecooper questioned the fairness of Ivan's play, as translated by me into English:

-- start of the translation ---

It's not really a pleasure to hear that. I play on my own.

But I go to great lengths to prepare for matches; in particular, I go through 10-15 last games by each potential opponent of mine in which he put an opening, and analyze his openings on a computer. This is why I knew the openings put against me in more than a half of the games played by me as the second player in these two matches. Many players do not just put one and the same opening each time, but also play it wrong, or the opening is unbalanced. I am surprised by people who play one and the same opening each time, often playing it wrong, and then wonder how the opponent could know their opening. This applies to, inter alia, the games against outtiberius, ouups, alicecooperpl, and sawyerpl. I myself strive to play a different opening each time; the seven games played by me as the first player feature six different openings.

Also, I cannot but mention how lucky I was in various ways. Outtiberius failed to block a four. Ouups had the space of the entire board after I didn't manage to convert a decisive advantage into a victory, but he didn't win. Ir0nman had an uncomplicated win, and I saw it, but, for some reason, he lost. Ursuspl built a win for me himself. And in the other game, he could have seized a huge advantage. Alicecooperpl simply gave me the initiative.

Probably, these two factors --- preparation and luck --- indeed somewhat inflate my real playing strength.

-- end of the translation ---

This response was sent by Ivan to his captain, Alexey Mikhailov, in the morning of April 11, that is, on the next day after the match date. Alexey hadn't asked Ivan to provide any explanations. Alexey had merely informed his team that Alicecooper had expressed doubts of Ivan's fairness.

Alexey explained me these details and forwarded Ivan's response to me for translation and publication. Alexey added that he believes that Ivan's response is a perfect answer to Marek Gorzecki and 'other people who are like him in that they can't lose with dignity.'
2021-05-05 17:37:57 Sandra Jones (sandra)
RE: MMA schedule: Fight dates, TV channel
# 7251
Dear admins, could you please remove the spam about MMA? It makes our forum look not good.
2021-05-04 07:56:37 tononim gfhyj (playfive)
MMA schedule: Fight dates, TV channel
# 7250
Watch Conor McGregor vs Dustin Poirier 3 Live Stream UFC 264 Fight online free #UFC264 returns on Saturday, July 10, 2021 on https://twitter.com/McGregorPoirier
2021-05-04 07:43:51 tononim gfhyj (playfive)
RE: My questions to Alexey Mikhaylov
# 7249
https://twitter.com/McGregorPoirier
2021-05-02 02:33:12 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: My questions to Alexey Mikhaylov
# 7248
1. As white's position is weak (any move you make),
so I decided that I can try if black will be tempted to the middle, and a greater difficulty for them.
2. a) This is not the only possible move, I have also played other moves (I9 or K7).
b) However, people often play 15-K9 hence the 14.
c) I chose quickly out of these three.
3. I was wondering if I should set another 6, in the past, there were also other moves played in this open.
4. It's a long story and not from the Euroleague, but of course.
a) First, I didn't know if I would be able to go to the TGWC.
b) Then it turned out that I can but I had to work for 2 weeks before the TGWC with little sleep and not at home, without a computer.
I had neither the strength nor the ability to prepare for the games at all (and until the last moment I dealt with the organization of the tournament).
c) Besides, I was supposed to go as a replacement, 'vince' was supposed to play, he even paid for a hotel room. I assumed that I would sleep off first, then look at the openings.
Only 3 days before TGWC it turned out that vince is not going, that I have to play all the time.
d) Specifically, in my opening I have developed moves that I have never played in public, or very rarely, when I look at renlib before the tournament, I remember it (as I wrote before, I didn't even have time for that).
With you I only remembered the next move and how complicated it is afterwards, but inaccurate. Since it was obvious that you were prepared for it and I was not, I played a different one.
e) Unfortunately during the TGWC I was so exhausted from lack of sleep that at times it was very difficult for me to play.
For example, in the game http://gomokuworld.com/tournaments/217/14447
I had a sure win after the 26th move, I saw it, that's why I set it, but after a few minutes, I thought I would not fit (I told Gabor during the game: that he is lucky that I am unconscious)
The same in the game http://gomokuworld.com/tournaments/217/14467
After move 15 I had a sure win, then I stopped seeing him and put a stone on the other side (I also told Piotr after the game that I had a win)
Sad, but in this state I was :(
I was seriously wondering whether to go to sleep instead of playing MP and blitz, but on the other hand, go to the tournament after sacrifices and not play, both possibilities are wrong.
Theoretically, there was a maestro in the team that he could replace, but it quickly turned out that he had so many other duties (too much like all the organizers (including me)) that he said that he would only do it if someone had to go to the hospital.
2021-05-01 22:52:09 Dmitry Epifanov (owen)
RE: My questions to Alexey Mikhaylov
# 7247
Your questions first.

> does this give you a clue do i know it (since Kozin is an expert on it)?

Nope. It took a minute for you to play 6th move. So here is a clue.

> Ask Kozin or Zoli - in this opening, if someone knows them, white basically has the only possible moves, and counting your variants 1/2 1/10000, etc., is sorry but useless

It is not useless because your 10th is losing. There are no possible moves for white, that's why it is interesting which defending line you chose and why you did it so quickly. Yixin database, maybe?

> 4) By the way, as a trainer, did you practice this opening with Ivan? (I think I know the answer, but maybe it will interest others)

No, we didn't, at least I don't remember. But playing 5th move in 1 second may give you a clue. How do you think, does he know this scheme or no? In general, he knows much more theory than I do, it works both for renju and gomoku. He is young, his memory is good, he is analyzing a lot. I'm too old, my memory serves me worse. How old are you, by the way?

> By the way, what is the actual age of Ivan 13, 15? Let us know the facts.

Danilin is 17 years old now, born 2003.
He was 3rd in Russian High League 2020, I can't explain you how high this result is. But maybe it's enough to mention that in WHR rating (renju) he is higher than any polish player including Mr. Żukowski. They are quite close, Ivan has a rating of 2459 and Michał has 2453. https://renjurating.wind23.com/

He is studying renju and gomoku for a long time. His first gold medal on Youth Russian Championship was in 2014 (or 2013? my memory is so weak)

Now several questions from me.

1. Could you please explain your 18th move. What are the variants beneath it? Why did you choose this 18th?

2. Why this 14th? Did you know that it is the only possible move for white? How much time did you spent on this 14?

3. How do you explain 1 minute you've spent on the 6th move?

4. And one more thing.
http://gomokuworld.com/tournaments/218/14564
Could you please tell me about this 6th move. You played this swap2 before in EL. In that game you've found the only possible moves for white, the variant is very complicated, but 10 minutes were enough for you to calculate all the consequences. And with me you've spent a lot of time after my swap2 and played a losing or mostly-losing 6th move. Why?
2021-04-30 23:08:13 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: My questions to Alexey Mikhaylov
# 7246
Alexey, I have questions

1. In a private conversation, I politely told my doubts.
You demanded an apology and punishment for me.
Then you spat on me publicly here on the forum.
Do you fight for Euroleague standards like this?
Do you consider your behavior appropriate?
Or maybe you have something to tell me?

2. You have repeatedly emphasized here: 'young' 'newcomer'
Do you think that: is someone young or old, tall or short, fat or skinny etc, is related to cheating? seriously?
By the way, what is the actual age of Ivan 13, 15? Let us know the facts.

3. I feel exactly as payzel wrote: you made a public scandal out of a private conversation that no one knew about.
For what purpose?
To intimidate and censor? So that no one would even dare to say anything about Russian players?

4. Or maybe you used it as an excuse to leave the Euroleague and not play? (this is what it looks like)
Many were waiting for the result of your match against Czech Payback. I was curious if it would be 8-0, or a change of style and 0-8

Do you have the courage to answer these questions?

Sincerely, Marek
2021-04-29 13:37:13 František Fňukal (payzel)
RE: To František Fňukal
# 7245
Yes, definitely - feel free to do so.
2021-04-29 12:04:47 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
My questions
# 7244
I have no further questions for Mr. Gorzecki. Everything I had to say to him, I told him. The fact that he himself is accused of foul play is another discussion, I have nothing to do with it.
I have big questions for the Euroleague Committee. My protest action relate much more to the Committee than to Mr. Gorzecki. I raised questions about corporate ethics, not cheating. These questions are entirely up to the Committee.
2021-04-29 12:02:57 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To František Fňukal
# 7243
František, hi. You do not have a correct understanding of how this conflict was born and developed, who said what to whom, who asked what from whom. And for what reasons. If this is interesting to anyone, I can state the correct line of events.
2021-04-29 07:10:38 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: To Dmitry Epifanov
# 7242
Dimitry I appreciate your renju play and analysis :)
but please get the facts first, otherwise it will be a shame.

1) For example, I played this open with M Kozin in a 2 minute blitz at the TGWC
Kozin made the strongest moves, so did I. Kozin asked for a draw.
does this give you a clue do i know it (since Kozin is an expert on it)?

2) If not yet, I have placed it live many times during the 15th Polish Gomoku Championship (also with Oleg)

And you wonder about the timing and coincidence with Yxin: D

Ask Kozin or Zoli - in this opening, if someone knows them, white basically has the only possible moves, and counting your variants 1/2 1/10000, etc., is sorry but useless

3) The only thing else I did while playing with tokyo was the weaker 10th move to check (I assumed he could prepare for the strongest variants, and not necessarily the weaker one)

4) By the way, as a trainer, did you practice this opening with Ivan? (I think I know the answer, but maybe it will interest others)
2021-04-29 00:09:42 Dmitry Epifanov (owen)
RE: To Pavel Laube
# 7241
Hi, Pavel!

> Plus this was not a public discussion as far as I know

At least three players told me about this situation despite I'm not playing EL at all. One of those was a Committee member asking me to write a few words about Ivan's skills because I'm his coach. Is it a public discussion or not?

And one more thing. I've made a brief analyze of one game between alicecooper and Ivan. Feel free to read it on vk.com and check everything written there. Two main facts are:
1. Ivan made several unoptimal moves; for example, he missed an easy win (easy for a computer). He played a very human move instead.
2. alicecooper made 100% his moves with Yixin's first line (including a couple of non-human moves) but lost mainly because Yixin's first line was too bad.
2021-04-28 22:59:18 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: To Pavel Laube
# 7240
Alex, if everyone would stop playing after such accusations in the internet, there would be no players left. Plus this was not a public discussion as far as I know, so no need for explanations whatsoever. My humble advice, just ignore the bullshit and enjoy the game.

I wish you all the best and hope to play with your team in seasons to come (after all, Ivan can take it as a compliment;) )

Cheers
2021-04-28 22:40:44 František Fňukal (payzel)
RE: To Pavel Laube - 2
# 7239
Hey, you wrote ''By the way Ivan Danilin provided his explanations to the Committee''. I might have gotten this wrong, but did anyone from the Commitee ask you for any explanations? I get it, it is a serious accusation, but if the conversation was merely between you and Marek then whats the deal - being it me, I would have asked him, why he thinks so and which moves exactly were the "program" moves. But once he only contacted you and wasnt yelling this into the world, there is no way he could have unjustifiably stain anyones reputation or ''hurt their feelings'' and there is no need to make a big fuss over this. Marek as an individual can have whatever opinion he wants, he can contact the Commitee and only when Commitee finds something suspicious, it becomes a thing. (btw this whole string was started with your own comment)
2021-04-27 13:03:04 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Pavel Laube - 2
# 7238
By the way Ivan Danilin provided his explanations to the Committee. The first phrase is "I hate to write this." There are no more emotions in his message. Despite his youth, Ivan explains very thoroughly and rationally: HOW and WHY he won all these 13 games. Including two games with Mr. Gorzecki.
2021-04-27 12:04:54 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Pavel Laube
# 7237
Pavel, greetings. You take such great care of the young players. Please tell your opinion. A young player comes to the Euroleague, plays the first 2 matches (14 games), and after that he should give some explanations to the team-opponent and the public: why he wins a lot of games? He should give explanations: HOW he wins, WHY he wins? Is this a normal situation? This probably increases the popularity of the Euroleague among young players? When you were a Euroleague newcomer, and played the first 2 matches, did you give some explanations about your game?
2021-04-26 17:12:30 Lukáš Souček (czpaysk1ller)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7236
I can only agree with my Czech colleague. Let's play some!
2021-04-26 11:58:13 Pavel Laube (kedlub)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7235
Grow up people. Leaving the competition for such bullshit is childish. And first of all, it's a pity for talented young players in the squad.
2021-04-24 19:21:52 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7234
Please give us individual names. Who did I tell stories to?
2021-04-24 19:15:57 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7233
And I ask you to explain what you mean when you say:

--I only found out that he tells fairy tales to other people and to the gomoku committee.--

Who are these --people-- I've been telling stories to?
2021-04-24 19:07:17 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7232
Mr. Gorzecki, it's answer to your point 6.
PERSONALLY, we talked to you after the match. You didn't answer my next question (What exactly should I talk to Danilin about? - I asked you), you didn't say goodbye, and left the game room. This was the end of our PERSONAL communication.
2021-04-24 17:36:31 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: To Euroleague Committee and Alexey M
# 7231
1. I was the last one to play tokyo_jazz, all my bandmates warned me that they felt like they were playing with the program, so was I.

2. After the game, on the table I wrote to tokyo_jazz only ':)'

3. On the chat I politely thanked the opponents team for playing also with ':)'

4. Privately I wrote to captain off_minor to talk to tokyo because the games look dirty, he asked what would I do or a protest? - I replied that it was too early (after all, I am a serious and logical person, without an analysis of games and confirmation, I will not accuse anyone of 100%)

5. I have not written so far due to lack of time and I decided that whether I publish the analyzes a week or a month later does not matter.

6. I am surprised that if off_minor had any requests - he did NOT contact me PERSONALLY, I only found out that he tells fairy tales to other people and to the gomoku committee.
off_minor: it's hard to trick someone in the face? make it easier for those who do not know the situation?

7. During the match I spoke politely, with a smile, without any hysteria, without any nasty words, (and privately) factually that I had doubts.
a) Therefore, I find the request for an apology bizarre.
b) I consider the attack on me, insults and twisted actions as an indirect confirmation of our suspicions.
c) The suggestion that I have hurt a player so much that you have to leave the Euroleague is simply ridiculous and hysterical.
2021-04-23 18:45:14 Igor Eged (outiec)
RE: To Euroleague Committee
# 7230
Hi Alexey,
the committee cannot make Mr.Gorzecki apologize, nor there is sufficient material presented to us for his punishnment.
He just told you his opinion in a private message within the heat of the lost match, you didn't provide a screenshot for us either, this is a thing between you two as for now, but I don't see a valid reason to hurt the competition and make your next opponent, one of the top teams, lose the chance to play another good and interesting match, also you make your players lose this chance.
So it would be nice if you reevaluate your decision.

Regards,
Igor
2021-04-23 10:39:07 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Euroleague Committee
# 7228
Mr. Goretsky declined to apologize. The Euroleague Committee took an indifferent position. I am put out my team from the season in protest.
2021-04-23 07:15:50 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
To Mr. Gorzecki
# 7227
Until Saturday, April 10, I always defended Mr. Gorzecki when everyone accused him of unclean play. But I won't do it again. After our match, Mr. Gorzecki accused my player - a young and talented Ivan Danilin, a Euroleague newcomer. Just like that, without a single proof. "Because it's 8-0", - Mr. Gorzecki said.
He does not know how to lose and same time keep calm and honor. The first reaction is a woman's hysteria. And he doesn't have the skills to be critical of his own game. If you are an experienced and well-known player, this does not give you the right to hurt newcomers.
You are a weak and low man, Mr. Gorzecki.
2021-02-27 21:15:16 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
sandra case
# 7219
Some time ago there was a DaW: CzP match, during which sandra over 3 hours in a public chat room insulted me, tried various insinuations, and tormented other players. s/he also came to my table and disturbed my play. Apparently s/he has serious mental problems (this is nothing new, after all)

11.1. It is forbidden to speak in rooms during EL games at the table, except players playing their game at the moment, captains of playing teams, members of the Committee. They should only speak in reasonable cases.
11.2. No comments about the games are allowed until the game is over. Especially comments regarding moves and time are forbidden.

I will ask those who voted in favor of this individual in EL: really?
2021-02-27 19:28:05 Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)
Wishes for Igor
# 7218
Igor Eged, get well faster, friend!
2021-01-16 23:09:44 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7209
Sandra,

As you mentioned me in your message, I feel obliged to comment on this, as in my opinion, it would be fair to make things more clear. I'm not sure what you meant by suggesting that I know you well, but I would like to focus on another aspect.

First of all, I voted "YES" as Dark Team captain, although my personal vote would be "NO". I was considering this case as relatively serious, for a few reasons, therefore I decided to consult it with my teammates (to be more precise - the active ones) and my final vote was based on their opinions.

I don't think this is necessary to publicly share all my thoughts about why I would choose "NO", but basically you are right that every case like this one is more or less "personal", even if finally we see the arguments on respecting the rules, etc. So every single case shall be considered separately.

It's natural that you analyze it from your own perspective, however others should rather see the wider context. You gave us an example of declared tournaments as a concrete loss on gomoku community side (btw. I think that we can't lose something that we don't really have, but it would be a separate philosophical discussion), nevertheless, I knew then about other declarations - regarding possible leaving the competition by some players, or maybe even teams, in case of your acceptance in EL as an anonymous player. Using your question on one million USD donation, how we can choose between you and someone else in such a case? It's hard to compare two players, but what if there would be 2, 3 or 4 players leaving? And what if it would be 1, 2 or 3 teams leaving because of you? You would rise the prizes to 20, 30 or 40 EUR and so on? I think that this is not an easy choice. But for me it was more natural not to choose someone who doesn't want (or can't, as you suggest) to meet standard EL Rules, in which non-anonymous playing is one of the core principles.

Moreover, I have no idea how exactly other captains made their decision, but I know at least one another example of a similar approach as I described above. So, if I may honestly suggest, I wouldn't take captains' votes that personally, as probably there are your supporters (or good friends as you called them) also in the teams that voted "NO", as well as not everyone supports you in the "YES" teams. It's obviously your choice if you decide to generalize, but I thought it's worth to mention.

Finally, I believe that a friend's role is not to support indiscriminately each other, especially if this is not in accordance with your beliefs. But I would expect my friends to be fair and communicating in an open and honest way.

Best regards,

Angst

P.S. One additional thing about Czechs. Maybe not everyone knows that I really wanted to join CPL, as I find it very interesting and hard competition (almost like IRP :)). Finally, I was not accepted, as CPL rules allow only Czechs and Slovaks to play, so it looks like they are quite consistent in their approach to the rules! I don't feel offended anyhow and I fully respect this. I need to say more - I am really grateful that they hadn't ignored me, but they took it (more or less :)) seriously and considered my request. I will just ask next year once again probably :)
2021-01-15 13:13:14 František Fňukal (payzel)
RE: The decisions
# 7208
Sandra, why all this bs and conspiracy. I told you the reasoning of my decision, now you're asking me how much does a b*tch cost through some artificial construct. Btw. ''How much money is enough and why?'' I like your question based on your own induced premise :D.

Oh, that has to be a misunderstanding, my argument is actually Rule 2.4. The further treatment of potential cheaters among known players is a case of its own and I admit a tricky field, that's why you keep bringing that topic up I guess. The Rule 2.4 provides a decent precaution against anonyms who have much more free space to cheat etc. As I said, I think no known player wants to get their reputation stained. I don't say that no one did it in the past, but the thing is we all know who they are and I think they paid the price for doing so. All in all, let's just not make more chaos than what we actually need to.
2021-01-13 13:30:20 Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl)
RE: Sandra vs. PSGRiP
# 7207
1. Known manipulation method: choose a part and pretend it is a whole. Well, you tried

2. I made it clear 'in another matter'

3. It's obvious, some know, many don't

4. Not briefly, you used the programs long enough. You said because they exposed you.
But this is only a modest part of what your victims described: (example quotes)
'encouraged other people to meet very intimate'
'blackmailed into saying bad things about me'
'she enjoyed setting up numerous fictitious accounts and screwing players in'
and so on

5. Normal irony: D

6. Indeed, some people have told me that you have a strange and abnormal fixation on me. (no) sorry: no chance.
The only interaction is: you stop trolling and preferably leave gomoku / renju
Displayed message count: 30