|2012-11-28 19:53:59 • Ondrej Nykl (pandik1)|
|It's funny that writer of # 6427 post doesn't consider me a competent person just because I don't have time nor will to write long empty sentences about such an obvious case as this. Maybe this is all a joke and successful trolling of EL commitee? It would explain a lot.
As for my competency - I uncovered the first cheater in EL history, many of them throughout the years and almost all of them during last "program era" of kurnik. And I don't remember being wrong about anyone who I accused publically, even though they fought back and had defenders. And yes, lot of them were far less obious than this. But yes, I guess there are many more competent people.
Again, it's really absurd to even discuss about it, but we were told IN HUNGARY by HUNGARIAN (I won't mention the writers # because it would be quite an embarassment) that he uses a program online and he (drabos) didn't have any problems admitting it. Afterall, I think you all can check his games from TWC and if you understand gomoku at least a little bit, you should see what's going on.
|2012-11-27 19:47:40 • Paweł Tarasiński (commaestro)|
|Ondik, I know some people resign because of cheaters' attendance and completely understand it. That's why I asked questions containing clear suggestion: if Committee of EL members don't know too much about identifying cheaters, they should use experienced searchers' methods instead of their imaginations about unfair playing.
Angst, I agree that every evidences we consider give us only probability, not complete certainty. However diminishing significance of game analysis is wrong solution. For me - and probably for every person, who knows a bit more about finding cheaters - this is the most important hint. I value its importance during judging process at 90%-99%. Other factors are of little importance.
I'm glad you admit you're not expert. Now it's time for draw a conclusion. Too strong belief in friendly atmosphere means naivety, which is insolently abused by cheaters. Of course looking for them it's not your main duty, although you decide about finding guilty or not.
Gergo, it isn't necessary to convince me about work in Committee of EL as devoting free time, beacuse I was or I'm ivolved in many activies connected with gomoku too and appreciate every kind of action in favour of our environment. Declaration of accepting external aid seems positive forecast. Summarising, I would give one, basic advice: judging player accused of using program should base on different elements of game analysis: percentage, playing style, key moves' convergence, sometimes also strategies in overlines' threats or schema openings.
|2012-11-27 02:13:17 • Gergő Tóth (ycgergo)|
|Thanks for valuable comment, Pawel. I'd like to answer your 2 last questions only:
1) Of course there is no such a form, it may include renlib analysis, written material of suspicious moments or a revealing conversation, analysis of video-recorded games etc. The evidence can contain just a few games or even moves or a series of games of more seasons (like never missing a single win, play in the same pace or playing deliberately weaker under time pressure etc.). The evidence must be clear and consistent.
2) As Piotrek mentioned, we devote our free time to make things work a bit smoother. Although we make our best to find cheaters and keep the league clear, the online system will never give you 100% evidences about unfair players. We will never be able to prove if someone used some extra material (program, database, board etc.) but we always have to try to keep playing clear. From this aspect we accept anybody's help in connection with future accusations. According to your comment we might consider you as a competent person in this question, not like the writer of #6424 comment.
|2012-11-27 01:17:42 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)|
|Here are my responses:
Ad. 1) In my opinion there is no satisfactory evidence (especially just game analysis), probably only video recording or written confession would be enough. Obviously, life is not easy, so we need to decide on material received in particular case.
Ad. 2) I don't consider myself as competent in the field of finding cheaters. If I would, I probably should work for FBI or other organisation. I recommend you to read EL Rules once again. Our main role is to decide in serious cases, not looking for cheaters. We trust this is serious competition, but still we would like to see more friendly atmosphere here. We need to decide basing on our knowledge and using common sense.
Am I competent member of the Committee? I wouldn't like to judge myself. I can only add that my colleagues from the Committee are devoting their free time for you to make the things working. From your perspective we are probably making many mistakes, but there is never ill will.
|2012-11-26 23:19:37 • Ondrej Nykl (pandik1)|
|LOL, you can't be serious. He will even admit it himself that he's cheating :D
Ask yourself next year why less and less players are participating in EL.
|2012-11-26 18:05:42 • Paweł Tarasiński (commaestro)|
|Being guided by general opinion about player on this stage of proceedings I consider as unjust and unreasonable. Everyone should be equal before the law. We can take into account opinions in final stage by analogy to administration of justice: if the defendant is found guilty, he may by punished lenient e.g. for the sake of knowing him, not being recidivist etc. Before judgement the defendant should be unknown for us.
Blinking during games - in contrast to percentage of identical moves - means nothing. Nowadays only these cheaters, who are right idiots, don't use program for not blinking. I suppose, that there is no cheaters-fools among EL players.
Next issue: time consuming for making moves. Playing very fast, especially making the hardest, deciding moves, immediately, may be important clue. Unfortunately, this rule don't work inversely. Playing slower, using longer time breaks, we can not recognize as guarantee of honesty. This can be misleading or lags.
Finally, I want ask Committee of EL members:
1) How should look like satisfactory evidence(s) to determine a cheater?
2) Do you consider yourselves as competent in the field of finding cheaters?
|2012-11-25 20:45:57 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)|
The Committee decides according to the EL Rules. As there is no precise information how to proceed in such a case there is a standard voting procedure.
I am sure you understand there can't be exact % to be supposed as satisfactory to determine a cheater. No-one from The Committee considered received material as sufficient to punish Drabost.
My personal opinion is that % of identical moves is not the only one and most important factor while making such a decision.
I would take into consideration also:
- general opinion about player - problems in the past (if any), presence on live tournaments, performance in other competitions, opinion on player's reliability from trustworthy people who knows him/her personally
- behaviour during the games - blinking or not, time consumed and distance between moves (if there was trustworthy witness during the games)
- games analysis - number of moves identical with program, however taking into consideration if the moves were the same in the beginning of games, how the situation looks in not sure positions and in the obvious situations, if there were suspicious moves (like eg. in a case of overlines).
Summarising, I can imagine situation, where 50% of identical moves can be enough and on the other hand sometimes 80% is not sufficient. Obviously, the highest %, the more suspicious we should be.
|2012-11-22 12:48:54 • Andrey Sviridov (cr_spartak)|
|In my personal opinion such percantage does not exist. Prooving smb is cheating is really hard. Each case is different and shood be thoroughly analysied.|
|2012-11-21 20:32:20 • Vladimir Nipoti (angrypanda)|
|I would like to ask the committee.
How many % of moves identical to the program are supposed to be a satisfactory proof to determine a cheater?
|2012-11-19 18:10:01 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon)|
For team Renegades
|In case it proves bappka is the same player as bashibyzyk, consequences will be taken leading to future penalty points and game points loss as it would qualify as an abuse of several points in our rules.
So I suggest to consider possible comeback with the same real name, change of kurnik nickname if it won't be available anymore could be discussed.
|2012-11-19 18:03:31 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon)|
|I suggest if there is some suspicion, committee should be contacted directly without starting potential flamewars by public accusation.
In this case committee didn't find the evidence sufficient, but will watch closely in next rounds, thanks for analysis Michal.
|2012-11-12 02:21:25 • Michał Żukowski (zukolepl)|
|Player Drabos Tamas (EL nick - drabost from team Cicafanok) plays with program.
In the evening CET will send renlib with his games against Czech Layback and Renegades.
|2012-10-30 20:08:18 • Tomo Dernovšek (jezek_si)|
|rule 8.1: " ... A captain can accept new player during every EVEN round, ..."
even means 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th round
|2012-10-30 16:29:47 • anatolie smirnov (sherhan)|
|I can not join a new player. post- You can not join the player because your team do not have filled or confirmed result of this round!
We did not break the rules. Make the right decision, please.
|2012-10-23 18:36:36 • Marcin Wojtasiński (dtjas)|
RE: for team Miss-click
|joyomen = mcunification = Arek Rygiel|
|2012-10-23 18:35:47 • Marcin Wojtasiński (dtjas)|
RE: for team Miss-click
|Mcunification = joyomen|
|2012-10-23 01:36:38 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon)|
for team Miss-click
player mcunification in team Miss-click has to provide his real name and surname, otherwise he will be awarded penalty points after this round based on EL rules.
|2012-10-02 22:34:03 • Vladimir Nipoti (angrypanda)|
EUROLEAGUE OPEN 2012 ▌Sunday 07.10.2012
|Dear gomoku players,
Intenational Gomoku Committee and the Euroleague Organizers are happy to invite you to the open tournament “Euroleague Open 2012”.
Euroleague is the most prestigious competition on the Internet. Through the years many and maybe all the excellent players who achieved something in that game participated in Euroleague. The 3 World champions played it, all the European champions took part. Players who showed their abilities not only in the live competitions, but as well on the Internet and players who never played a live tournament, almost all the players who were more or less interested in that game took part in the competition.
Therefore, we invite you to attend this open tournament for everyone who is trustworthy and fair.
It doesn’t matter if you are young, old, great or less experienced player, gomoku or renju player or if you have never played EL, just come and enjoy the atmosphere of our friendly international community!
Many excellent players from the Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary and Russia already confirmed their participation.
We ask you to come with the most known nick.
If you think you don’t know nick Bano or he doesn’t know you, write your name +the most known nick on the forum of your country (vk.com gomoku, forum.gomoku.pl, hungarian fb group), and my coordinators (angst, zukole, bayc, furla, gergo, attila) will check and confirm you. All other known players are allowed to play.
The event will be held online on playok.com on Sunday 07.10.2012 at 19:00 CET (21:00 Moscow)
The parameters: 7min per player, 9 rounds, swap2 rule.
Hope to see you all there!
International Gomoku Committee and Euroleague Organizers .
|2012-10-02 10:11:20 • Tomo Dernovšek (jezek_si)|
RE: The Beginning of the El season 2012/2013
|Committe has decided, that EL will start on the 8th October, because server was down last week.|
|2012-09-15 13:24:28 • Michał Żukowski (zukolepl)|
The Beginning of the El season 2012/2013
|"Committe has decided, that next EL will start on the 1st Monday in October (1st October)."
When we can show informations about team registration ?
|2012-06-04 14:43:29 • Alex Popiel (lolamaza)|
The End of the EL Season
|As the current EL season has come to an end, I would like to thank everyone for the interesting matches we watched and played.
I am also glad to acknowledge the high degree of competition, especially among the top-5 teams. It was a worthwhile experience and a lot of fun. This moreover makes the overall result laudable and flattering for my team.
Hope to see you on the pitch in the forthcoming seasons!
With my best wishes,
|2012-03-30 16:24:09 • Attila Demján (ycattila)|
|You can find all important information, news and updates at the official webpage of TGEC2012:
|2012-03-30 11:41:39 • Attila Demján (ycattila)|
RE: Team Gomoku European Championship 2012
|Sorry for bad editing, read the article here: http://renju.net/media/news.php?news_no=341|
|2012-03-30 11:32:32 • Attila Demján (ycattila)|
Team Gomoku European Championship 2012
|Team Gomoku European Championship 2012 – Budapest, Hungary
Dear gomokuplayers all over Europe, I hereby invite you to take part in the TGEC 2012 – Budapest.
This event will be the very first Team Gomoku European Championship of the history so get prepared and don’t miss your chance!
The championship will be held in Budapest, Hungary between 23 July and 29 July.
The parameters of the competition:
- 1 team consist of 4 players, substitutes allowed (max 2)
- Primary priority for a team is to have 4 countrymates
- However, mixed teams are allowed if someone wants to join but his/her country can’t set up a whole team
- One countrey can take part with more teams, there is no limitation
- Playing system will be round robin or round robin + playoff, depending on the number of teams
- Every match is played in the following format: Team A player 1 vs Team B player 1, Team B player 2 vs Team A player 2, etc. It means the maximum points one team could win in a game is 4
- Time limit will be 80-120 min + 30 sec/move, also depending on the number of teams
- Opening rule is swap2
Example for schedule:
July 21: Arrival of players
July 22: Arrival of players, 18:00 opening ceremony
July 23: 9:30 Round 1, Lunch break, 15:30 Round 2
July 24: 9:30 Round 3, Lunch break, 15:30 Round 4
July 25: 9:30 Round 5, Lunch break, 15:30 Round 6
July 26: Free day for rest, sightseeing, different activities
July 27: 9:30 Round 7, Lunch break, 15:30 Round 8
July 28: 9:30 Round 9, Lunch break, 15:30 Round 10
July 29: 9:30 Round 10, Lunch break, 18:00 Closing ceremony
July 30: Departure of players
This schedule is not fixed yet, the final schedule will be known when the registration closes and the playing system is decided, however the competition will start on the 23rd of July.
Tournament hall: The place of the competition is not in the citycenter but close to it, you can see it at the following link http://g.co/maps/crbpr.
The address is: Pestújhelyi Közösségi Ház, 1158 Budapest, Szűcs István utca 45
Accomodation: We offer a pension for accomodation very close to the tournament hall. They have 1, 2, 3 and 4 bed rooms, free wifi and parking, breakfast and dinner. The 4 person room is 12000 HUF/night , 1€=296 HUF. http://pestujhelypanzio.friweb.hu/eng/index_eng.html
If most of you would stay in this pension for the week we can get some discount. If you wish to stay at a different place just let me know and I’ll try to help.
Catering: There is a possibility to get lunch everyday for all the participants right at the place of the tournament if I preorder it. In order to get daily lunch I have to know how many of you would like to get common lunch so please write it in registration. I will provide free water, coffee, tea and probably some snacks too during the tournament.
Transportation: If you need airport transportation I will be able to help, let me know before.
Tournament fee: The tournament fee will be 15000HUF/team. You can pay in cash just before the competition or via bank transfer whenever you want.
Registration: Team captains have to send an e-mail to email@example.com including the following information (Please consult with your team members about these questions) :
Name and nationality of team:
Name and nationality of team captain:
Table 1 player:
Table 2 player:
Table 3 player:
Table 4 player:
Date and way of arrival and departure:
Do you want me to preorder lunch for everyday of the tournament (for how many players of your team):
Would you like to stay in Pestújhely Pension (for how many players of your team):
Do you need help in transportation:
Mode of paying tournament fee:
Additional wishes, remarks:
I hope we will have a great time and a colorful competition with a lot of teams. Don’t miss the first Team Gomoku European Championship of the history!
More details and updates are coming soon, I will also make a webpage for the event.
If you need any kind of help, don’t hesitate to contact me.
See you in Budapest!
|2012-03-19 09:24:39 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)|
RE: 24-25 March, Kraków, Pente & Gomoku tour
I regret to inform you that tournament is cancelled due to unsatisfactory level of interest...
P.S. I'm sorry for previous message, please ignore it.
|2012-03-19 09:21:26 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)|
RE: 24-25 March, Kraków, Pente & Gomoku tour
I regret to inform you that tournament is cancelled due to the satisfactory of interest...
|2012-03-12 00:20:48 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)|
24-25 March, Kraków, Pente & Gomoku tour
|Dear five-in-a-row Friends,
On behalf of Polish Gomoku, Renju and Pente Association I have pleasure to invite you to participate in the Polish Pente Championship and Gomoku swap2 tournaments that will be held 24-25 of March 2012 in Kraków! :)
Here you can find more details: http://gomoku.cixx6.com/index.php/zawody/40-zawody/173-30k?start=1. Official FB site: http://www.facebook.com/events/393009500709500/
We expect a lot of good games and fun. Hope to see you there!
|2012-03-05 07:21:12 • Andrey Sviridov (cr_spartak)|
RE: Profile name
|Igor, i have explained what is a reason to fill in a name in the latin alphabet. EL is an international competition and thus should be used most common language for all participants. In fact it is English language.
It is true that it is not said directly in rules one should provide his name in latin alphabet. I count on your understanding. Just imagine how could you read a chinese or arabian player's name if it was written in native language.
|2012-03-04 20:55:09 • Grachik Vardanyan (ra04)|
|I beat 2-0 Champion of Russia in Renju ....but lose some player player with girlnickname -- of course i was angry ...and sure that prog used.|
|2012-03-04 20:50:26 • Grachik Vardanyan (ra04)|
|but there are some things that i couldnt understud -i asked to check player....you find programm ????|