| 2020-12-30 16:49:39 • František Fňukal (payzel) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7186 |
| These questions are somewhat out of the frame of the issue. Of course we could discuss cheating as a matter of its own since it is probably the biggest concern in online competitions and so hard to prove if performed subtly. The truth is if Alice or any other person got convicted of cheating by a chance, it would leave a permanent stain on their reputation with them being widely known amongst the community. On the other hand an anonym may appear, cheat and then vanish back to the void. As to the last question - I don't quite see the causality between devotion/donating money and the probability of not cheating. | |
| 2020-12-27 16:37:13 • Ashot Avetisyan (ashot) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7185 |
| Sandra I don’t want to discuss it correctly or not, I’m just saying that you are a very good Person | |
| 2020-12-27 13:39:31 • Sandra Jones (sandra) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7184 |
| Frantisek, you say you don't trust anonyms. Do you trust people who play under their real names? Do you trust Marek Gorzecki aka Alicecooper? Do you trust that he is not a cheater?
Who is more likely to cheat - the Polish guy who was publicly accused of cheating by Osipov, Kondratiev, Kozhin, Muratov, and Menesi, or the anonym who loves the game so much that she has already donated a few hundred euros for gomoku? | |
| 2020-12-27 12:55:05 • František Fňukal (payzel) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7183 |
| Well I personally treat this as a general principle. So whatever the reasons may be, be it cheating or account duplicity, it applies (or should apply according to me, since we are even discussing this) to everyone. I don't go over the rules and seek for reasons why this or that wouldn't apply to a particular person. Even after my previous comment, you keep relating it to yourself, so once again - It does not necessarily have to do with you as a person. With all respect to your contribution, I don't trust anonyms. The first thing I would expect you to reply would be: "But what about "Andrzej Kostecki" etc." Well yes, I definitely admit that violation of the rule might have unknowingly happened, but treating the rule with "It was violated in the past, so let's violate it further more anyway" is not exactly a way to consistency. | |
| 2020-12-26 23:16:46 • Sandra Jones (sandra) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7182 |
| In view of the reversal of the decision to let me play in the EL under my pseudonym, I reverse my decision to organize regular online tournaments with a monetary prize of 15 Euro to be awarded in each tournament to a random participant.
When I announced my decision to organize such tournaments, I made it very clear that it was in return for letting me play in the EL under my pseudonym. I feel that if the community is unwilling to do me even such a little favor, I shouldn't be willing to commit myself to such regular financial donations and organizational work. | |
| 2020-12-26 16:05:11 • Sandra Jones (sandra) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7181 |
| František, what bad thing that the real-name rule is supposed to prevent are you afraid of in my case? Cheating? Being a clone of another EL participant? Or what? | |
| 2020-12-26 12:52:03 • Sandra Jones (sandra) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7179 |
| I find Alicecooper's last statement to be a totally false allegation, and I'm surprised he says the PSGRiP's president will confirm. So let's ask the PSGRiP's president. Usiek, did I blackmail the PSGRiP? | |
| 2020-12-26 12:36:46 • František Fňukal (payzel) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7178 |
| Hey homie. What one grown Australian prominent quantum mechanics Nobel laureate doesn't understand is that there are some rules to the Euroleague, one of which is forbidding players to play under a fake name. I do not by any means neglect the fact this rule might have been violated in the past due to some sloppiness on the organizers' part. However as it happens, your case is in a direct conflict with this very rule making it sort of a serious thing in our boring lives. And as a matter of fact, being so, it doesn't happen to be decided by one Iec, but by a whole bunch of Eastern European hillbillies who form the EL, some of which are simply too reluctant to see the rules pass right in between their fingers and who want to preserve at least some integrity to the competition. I don't say the EL has been perfect, there surely were cheaters caught red-handed in the past, there might still be some, there might have been other minor or major violations to the rules. But who knows - next year some Sándor Johansson might come and ask us to play with multiple accounts because of something and we will make the rules looser and looser until there are no rules at all. Some people just choose imperfect rules over no rules. The thing is these guys' stance doesn't necessarily have to do with any sympathy towards you. I surely do appreciate your efforts to promote the game and to make it more fun for us to play, however I have a quite strict stance in such a case. I hope your huge brain has enough capacity to pick up on all these stimuli, but all in all what am I even saying - I'm just this ignorant Eastern European bumpkin whose biggest life achievement was they stopped taking a dump onto the ground :) | |
| 2020-12-26 10:24:51 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7177 |
| Maybe this person did some good things, but I know for sure how many bad things they did, for example recently they tried to blackmail the Polish gomoku association. That is why I strongly protest against any participation of sandra in Euroleague. (the committee may ask our president if this is true) | |
| 2020-12-25 16:42:16 • Sandra Jones (sandra) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7176 |
| Hey homies, I want to put my cards on the table. What many babies in the gomoku community don't understand is that as a researcher in the West, you can easily be kicked out of your job for a racist, sexist, or politically incorrect post. That's something many gomoku players haven't even heard about, for they have always been sitting on their asses in Eastern European countries. A Western researcher must behave like a politician, carefully choosing every word. Even more carefully than Angst does. And now have a look at some jokes I made in my posts for the gomoku and renju communities:
> An Afro-American receives a sharp opening and chooses black. The opponent says, "You are going to lose." "Why?" "Because you are black." > China, 2017, a labour camp, prisoners are following the AT of the Renju World Championship through a radio. One round is remaining, and Zhu Jianfeng has to play the decisive game, which decides whether he gets gold. A guard finds the radio and confiscates it. So when a new prisoner comes in, they ask him, "What happened in the Renju World Championship?" "I lost." I cringe to think what would happen if my gomoku posts got connected to my real name and my real-world reputation in the West. That's why I can't reveal my real name. And that's the exceptional circumstances under which I asked for permission to play under a pseudonym. I did many good things for the gomoku community, including writing many articles, helping organize the WBC, and donating a few hundred euros for the WBC. And I thought the gomoku community could do me such a little favor. | |
| 2020-12-24 16:47:52 • Ashot Avetisyan (ashot) | |
RE: Sandra Jones is a genuine person | # 7175 |
| Dear committee, please tell me Sandra will play in my team or not? will you allow her to play under that name or not? I respect your laws but what are you planning to do tell me quickly | |
| 2020-12-23 13:20:07 • Zoltán László (scavenger) | |
Season 20/21 | # 7174 |
| Dear All,
I would like to inform you that the season starts on 28th Dec, as well as ELC will publish the decision of the disputed case regarding the participation of Sandra Jones. | |
| 2020-12-22 17:56:37 • Łukasz Majksner (scammer) | |
RE: Sandra Jones is a genuine person | # 7173 |
| Of course I did, Ilya, have you ever doubted that? :)
To be more serious, I'm sure you know what I meant - Sandra is not a copy of anybody whose appearance is known to me. To clarify, the aim of my comments is not to enforce anything related to Sandra's participation in the competition. My message is addressed to the community rather than the ELC. I merely expressed my own conclusions because I found them reasonable and necessary. | |
| 2020-12-22 11:19:27 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel) | |
RE: Sandra Jones is a genuine person | # 7172 |
| How can you confirm about "not a copy of anybody"? Did you see photos of all women in gomoku community? o_O | |
| 2020-12-21 18:53:22 • Łukasz Majksner (scammer) | |
Sandra Jones is a genuine person | # 7171 |
| To complete my message from yesterday, I would like to say that Sandra Jones decided to provide me some evidence confirming that she is a genuine person, and a woman. The photo I received is confidential, so I cannot show it to anyone, but I confirm that Sandra is indeed a woman, and not a copy of anybody. Sandra also provided a proof that it is her photo indeed.
Whatever the Euroleague Committee finally decides on this case, I find the above mentioned detail important in terms of the gomoku community's composure and well-being. | |
| 2020-12-21 13:06:40 • Tatiana Volkova (1dalida1) | |
Let's start the season on December 21! | # 7170 |
| Dear EL Committee,
Let's start the season on December 21! best regards, 1dalida1 | |
| 2020-12-21 08:04:37 • Pavel Laube (kedlub) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7169 |
| Dear EL Committee,
it would be very nice to finally start the season - and even better if it can be done according to valid rules. I through EL is a competition for non-anonymous players and I still do not see a reason to change it. Thank you. | |
| 2020-12-21 06:46:48 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7168 |
| if you play Euroleague with the camera on the back and the screen, I support it | |
| 2020-12-20 18:59:56 • Sandra Jones (sandra) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7167 |
| If I play such a match with Alicecooper, showing only my back and display, will I ultimately and irreversibly be allowed to anonymously play in the EL under my pseudonym Sandra Jones without having to provide my actual name to anyone whomsoever? | |
| 2020-12-20 17:52:54 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7166 |
| I, of course, can and agree to play with cameras from either side | |
| 2020-12-20 17:23:53 • Łukasz Majksner (scammer) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7165 |
| I did not plan to share my position in this case, as it does not concern me personally, but having realised how far the conflict escalated, I decided to write a few words.
I will try to be as objective as possible, acting neither as anyone's friend or any team's member. First of all, popularising gomoku by any means is a good thing, and our goal as both organisers and players should be to make this game as popular and competitive as possible, trying to not put our personal conflicts above common sense and enjoyment of the game. What I know about this case (if I am wrong, please correct me): 1. Sandra Jones was invited (!) to participate in Euroleague as a team member. 2. The EL rules were against that, as they strictly forbade playing under a fake name. 3. Sandra Jones, willing to join the competition, asked the Committee to exceptionally let her play under the name "Sandra Jones" which she had been using for many years in the gomoku community. 4. The Euroleague Committee decided to exceptionally allow Sandra Jones to play under her pseudonym, after approving the requested evidence of Sandra being a real person (as they claimed within the decision). 5. After the Committee's decision Sandra Jones joined the team "MIND INFINITY." led by Ashot Avetisyan. 6. Some players protested and asked the Euroleague Committee to revisit the case. 7. The Euroleague Committee postponed the start of the new EL season by one week. 8. The case has been continued and will reach its end tonight (most likely). What I have to say: 1. The above mentioned decision of the Euroleague Committee was made just 2 days before the declared start of the new season. Team captains were not informed about it straight away, which means that at least some of them had no real chance to get to know about it and react properly (in particular, complain about it). 2. The above mentioned decision was based on Clause 15.1 of the Euroleague rules: "The Organizers of EL are allowed to change the EL Rules or make exceptions to the rules, if a situation requires this. This should only be used in exceptional circumstances". Unfortunately the Euroleague Committee did not ground it properly, i.e. did not explicitly say why Sandra Jones's case was exceptional and what exactly caused the organisers to allow her to play under her pseudonym. In my opinion such approach is a bit unprofessional and I am not suprised that it caused some angry reactions within the gomoku community, especially taking into account some of Sandra's questionable actions in the past. 3. Personally I do not see a problem with allowing Sandra to play, the problem is with the wrong procedure. If the decision was taken openly, with full transparency, I am sure its perception among other players would be different. What I propose to do to resolve this issue: 1. Postpone the start of the new EL season by additional two weeks - it's not a big problem, taking into account the upcoming Christmas - New Year holidays when many people are busy with their family life anyway. 2. Write a new, more detailed decision explaining why Sandra is allowed to play under her pseudonym and publish it at least a week before the start of the new season. 3. Notify all team captains about the decision immediately after publishing it. 4. Update the Euroleague Rules (especially Clause 2.4) accordingly, i.e. provide strict conditions that will let you allow players to play under a pseudonym in the future. BTW, to resolve Alicecooper - Sandra conflict, I suggest organizing an online match between them, where they will be obligated to turn on their webcams. It would be enough if the webcams showed their backs and displays. In this case any doubts both players have against each other can be easily dispelled (of course if both of them agree to play such a match). Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone! | |
| 2020-12-20 17:18:29 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7164 |
| sorry these are not serious explanations, every troll is widely known, sandr is also known for his many lies, manipulations and harmful behavior.
and why do you write "she" if you don't know? because someone on the internet tells you? iec please ... | |
| 2020-12-20 16:55:19 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7163 |
| "extraordinary circumstances":
1) she is consistently known and acting under this one name in the community for years 2) she is an active long term member of the gomoku online community, also was acting as an co-organizer in wbc and promotes various events at many places, especially facebook, vk, polish forum, some renju magazine etc. 3) she has officially asked the committee | |
| 2020-12-20 16:36:16 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7162 |
| short: nobody knows, no real confirmation => do not play.
and again: what are the extraordinary circumstances for an exception? why everyone else has to be credible or they get punished and not here? I am against unjustified privileges | |
| 2020-12-20 16:08:34 • Igor Eged (ancientdragon) | |
RE: The decisions | # 7161 |
| Hi,
I am replying from my own point of view as a committee member and EL organizer, not for the whole committee. 1) because she was just recently invited to a team and decided to give it a try 2) we used an exception based on 15.1 rule and we informed about our decision in the decisions forum 3) the past is gone and an opinion may always change depending on circumstances 4) no My position is we should welcome any new player to our competition and Sandra is consistently acting in our community for years under the same name, it's a genuine person despite the fact her name is not known. If the captains want to see someone else in the committee, it's always open to discussion, but remember it's an unpaid work in our free time. You have protested and based on that we started a survey among captains, but it's questionable how fair it is towards Sandra after we already published our previous decision and the survey will be finished only today, last day before the start of new season. I agree we messed up and proved we cannot really act too swiftly in the last moments, and now it seems likely that all parties cannot end up being happy with the final solution at this point. Marek, are you sure you are not acting like this against her just because of some personal conflicts with her? What is the worst thing her participation can cause to you? If anyone does anything foul in our competition, he can be always expelled based on the committee decision, but I don't think anything like that is about to be expected in this case. Regards, Igor | |
| 2020-12-20 03:58:26 • Marek Gorzecki (alicecooperpl) | |
The decisions | # 7160 |
| 1) The previous Euroleague season ended 6 months ago.
What special circumstances caused the announcement by the committee a few days before the start of the new season? willingness to avoid discussion? 2) In the regulations we have a clearly defined situation when you can play anonymously (2.4 you must inform the captains), what is extraordinary that the commission is avoiding it instead of using the bylaws? Does the committee trust anonymous more than the Euroleague captains? I think all players are curious about the answers. 3) What is the value of a player who repeatedly stated that it is not worth playing in the Euroleague? 4) Has anyone played live gomoku / renju with anonymous? (has anyone seen him live, who?) if not, the committee may resign or answer questions and consider the matter seriously. Until I know the answers to these questions (4 in particular) I am against making such exceptions. PS There are advantages and disadvantages to being anonymous, but it is a conscious choice, and it is not fair to others to use only advantages. Marek | |
| 2020-12-19 22:03:59 • Sandra Jones (sandra) | |
Thank you very much | # 7159 |
| My heart is full of gratitude. It has been decided that I am allowed to play in the Euroleague under under my pseudonym Sandra Jones and do not have to use my actual name: http://euroleague.cz/php/viewmsg.php?for=8&msg=7155 . As a Western scientist who has to be extremely careful using her name on the Internet, I am so happy that the gomoku community was able to understand my situation and make an exception from the Euroleague rules for me. Sure, I did have to spend time and effort to explain things and provide evidence to the Euroleague Committee to support my case, including my PhD certificate and a screenshot of my account in Physical Review Letters, the leading physics journal, but I am happy that a positive decision was taken in the end.
Motivated by such a kind decision, I decided to do something good for the gomoku community in return: starting in January, I will organize a series of regular online tournaments with a monetary prize of 15€ in each tournament. Because giving the monetary prize to the winner would only provoke cheating, I will instead give the monetary prize to a random participant, with the aim being to attract as many participants as possible. The algorithm of selecting the lucky participant in each tournament will be absolutely transparent and based on an unpredictable number like the exact official exchange rate for a certain pair of currencies on the day following the tournament day. The money will be transferred to the lucky participant in bitcoins. Eligible for the lottery for any given tournament will be all those who play all rounds in that tournament and do the same in the one-minute tournament to be organized right after it. I humbly hope that by attracting a large number of participants, I will give any player an excellent opportunity to enjoy truly exciting tournaments. And who knows --- maybe this will help make gomoku great again, like in the good old times when tournaments with 100+ participants were held on Kurnik. Remember: Sandra can appreciate favors and be grateful! | |
| 2020-12-13 17:13:05 • Manó Gyenei (7uptorpe) | |
Admin date for 7up | # 7157 |
| Hello! 7up Team wants to set the time of the admin date at 17:00 Prague time.
Thank you! | |
| 2020-12-13 17:12:05 • Csaba Kamarás (owcsaba) | |
Admin date for Only We team | # 7156 |
| Hello! Only We team wants to set the time of the admin date at 17:00 Prague time.
Thank you! | |
| 2020-12-12 18:10:09 • Tatiana Volkova (1dalida1) | |
Admin date for Thunderstorm team | # 7154 |
| Hello everyone! We (Thunderstorm) want to set admin date on 17:00 server time (Prague time) | |