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Forum: Euroleague

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2011-02-21 09:54:54 Oleg Bulatowsky (logelo0one)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5402
It is nice idea, it would be interesting not only participate, but also watch it, so im ready to help. So i can propose qualification idea:
- We have the list of the all players of south and north.
- We divide each list by two groups.
- In each group we choose first four players by round system (it is good because it is no need for players to play at one day, they can decide suitable date for each match at the forum) Maybe, if the number of players in each group will be greater then 10, we can choose players be sweden system, 7-9 rounds.

To form north and south list we should know who is ready to play, so we should inform all playok players (or not only) and ask to write their agreement to play in the special place.
2011-02-17 11:52:36 Andrey Litvinenko (np_popovich)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5392
Vlad is right, as for me, i'm so lazy to write some comments about this match!)
Of course it would be interesting to see how guys from north will beat guys from south :)
If look at this, more serious, i'm not sure that qualification will show really the strongest players. At least we need to organize more than 1 tournament to define who is the best.
As for voting, player, who has more friends will get the place in the "dream-team"
Also EL statistic may show us the best players, but from who play in EL only
2011-02-15 18:08:56 Vlad Nipoti (czpaybtc)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5390

I agree with the idea of All-Stars and You guys have my full support.

I think a lot of people read this dicussion. They just were lazy to answer or hesitated to express their opinion. What's more, they all like this idea in my opinion.

So ALL EL PLAYERS, don't hesitate and write some comments about it. Don't act like you ignore efforts of Angst and Attila.

There are several posibilities how to set up a team:

a) From EL results and statistics

b) Voting of players in each part( North players vote for North team, South for South team)

c) It's not that bad idea of Sherhan. To make some qualification torunament or something...

Now, we need to find out if it's worth it. Then we can discuss the conditions and rules.

Kind regards,

2011-02-14 20:59:05 Adam Horvath (anakinnmoose)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5389
Hello Attila and Angst,

I am very interested in the All-Star Game idea and I am ready to help you with organisation stuff or change some ideas about rules with you guys. And of course i would like to play this match if I am gonna be selected:)

I think that many people are interested too. So people, write here and we can all discuss about that and maybe we can have very good match at the end of Euroleague...

Best regards

2011-02-13 19:56:59 Attila Demján (ycattila)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5383

I definitely think people are intersted in the idea. Why wouldn't they?
If people enjoy playing, they would enjoy this match more than a single game I guess. Of course it is possible that I am wrong at this point...

To be honest I am a bit agry and annoyed now. I would not invest any effort of mine into the All-Star game from now on unless I see activity and response from other people, a lot of people, from a lot of countries. It is just so WRONG and disappointing that there are a lot of people who likes to play and compete in gomoku, but way soooo less who is able to do anything for the game and for the international gomoku community. If it stays like this, we won't get any further, and I think the majority of EL players and even other people would like to look at gomoku as a game to be improved. (I feel similar now like when I gave up OGTWC...)

So now, I am encouraging other people who likes Angst's idea to cheer theirselves up and let's cooperate. Even if you don't like the idea, it would be useful to publish your thoughts. If there is no sign of efforts (really really small efforts), I think we all don't "deserve" the fun of All-Star game.

And sorry Piotrek, but if I don't see interest, I would refuse to organize Angst vs Attila teams match, but I am sure Gergo, Gabor or someone else would accept to organize the South part.

Best regards

2011-02-13 16:01:49 anatolie smirnov (sherhan)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5381
Ваша идея мало кого интересует из-за того, что большинству не очень то интересно, что какие то люди будут, во что то играть здесь,-это не футбол. Вот если бы вы объявили отборочные состязания для отбора в группы все звезды-уверен популярность предложения во много раз поднялась бы.
2011-02-10 14:09:35 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5373
Hello Attila (and everyone?)!

It looks that people are interested EL All-Star Game idea in a very limited way :)

Hence, I propose to organize it in a form of Attila's vs Angst's Friends match basing mainly on below proposed conditions (all details would be agreed by us then) :D

I suppose I can manage North team and you shall be responsible for South part.

What do you think?

Or maybe we should just resign? Shall we make people happy against their will? :/

Best regards,

2011-01-28 19:48:56 Attila Demján (ycattila)
RE: EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5340
Hey Angst and everyone,

I have been thinking about the same idea before but was lazy to publish it, so I am glad you did it!:)

Mostly I agree with you concerning the details but it has some point which I think need to be discussed:

- Deciding the 2 teams. Your ide about North/South is cool and given. But we should be sure that the current EL players of north and south are about same skillfull. I think the 4 leading country of EL are Russia, Poland (NORTH), Czech and Hungary (SOUTH), these 2 are about the same strength though South might be a little bit weaker. With the additional countries you wrote, we can probably make it equal. I am not sure, lets hear other opinions!

- System of play. I think 2x4 vs 2x4 is good, we already played in such system, in nation vs nation games and it worked fine I think. I would add that A and B groups should be same strong, not making team A the ultimate best and B containing the 2nd 4 best players.

- Selecting players. Probably the most difficult point concerning officiality and efficiency. I disagree with Angst that the top 4 making highest % of wins should be the first 4 players in a team. It is just simply because anyone from weaker teams can qualify here. The main problem with this is that we all play with different opponents, some always play with strong opponents, some always play with weak ones, so some wins and some loses don't have the same value and meaning of skill. But still, on the other hand, we shouldn't make these All-Stars team only based on voting. So how to do it? What others think?
Voting is fine, if we make all trustworthy people vote (most captains, most players from top teams, EL committee and then everyone else).
Or we can add some extra qualifying preferences, few quick examples below:

- Each country (fe. countries which has 10 or more players playing in EL) can delegate 1 player (letting all countries be represented),
- The top 4 players making the highest winning % above 40 games in this season, but ONLY FROM THE TOP 5 teams fe.
- The best 2 players from the winning team
- Making 2 captains and let them choose players, from selected players base simultanously (maybe bad idea:))

Date you suggested is fine, though I would make it 2PM instead of 10AM.

I hope this idea will work out after we hear more opinions and that we gonna have a nice ALL-STARS match at the end of the season.

Best regards,

2011-01-28 00:29:39 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
EL All-Star Game? :)
# 5339
Dear EL Players,

I was wondering few times what is the most powerful team in EL history. As it is really hard to choose, I'm quite sure that it is possible to create stronger team than ever played EL or even two such teams :)

Selecting players to your team you sometimes look at nationality, sometimes just skills are decisive factor and sometimes you prefer to play just with people you know personally (it is possible that many teams were created by mixing above mentioned things ;)).

I'm sure you can imagine your dream-team having no limiting restrictions. What I would like to propose is to organize EL All-Star Game at the end of this season. It is quite popular in many sport disciplines and professional leagues (e.g. NBA), why shouldn't we have our own All-Star Game?

I have initial concept of EL All-Star Game. My idea is to organize it exactly one or two weeks from last Admin date (Sunday, 10:00 Kurnik time) in a form of two EL matches played in parallel. That means both teams would consist of 8 players divided into 2 groups and in All-Star Game every player would play 8 games (2 times with every player from one of opposite’s groups) .

Currently there is more or less 168 players registered (I count only players from playing teams) and I found it reasonable to divide EL into North and South Parts for the All-Star Game purposes. Assuming that North include all countries which most of territory is above the middle of Poland we shall divide them as below:
North – Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Norway, Poland, Russia, Sweden (approximately 83 players)
South - Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Ukraine (approximately 85 players)

How the line-ups shall be determined? I think that it could be mix of EL statistics and EL community preferences. I suggest that first group of each Part shall include 4 players that will have highest % of wins at the end of season (from at least 40 games). Second group would be chosen by all EL Players in voting procedure starting from the beginning of the last round and finishing at the end of season or 3 days before All-Star Game. It is up to players how they select, but they can vote just for their Part players according to their own will (skills, popularity, friendship, etc.). I suggest that every player has 5 equal votes and to the second group will go players with the higher number of votes.

Obviously, you can also vote for players that have safe place in the first group. This is time for another idea – Captains of North and South. They shall be selected from current EL Teams Captains and determined by place of their teams at the end of season.

Currently, having in mind above rules, North would have in the first group dt_peaceman, np_popovich, ohjkomd, vlhfire and their Captain would be Alicecooper. In the South Team first group would include mranakinn, ycgergo, ycsky, whmartez (Captain - Gabor).

In case players selected to the second group are the same as in the first group it is up to Captain’s decision in which group they should play in EL All-Star Game. Moreover, Captain has to choose reserve players (at least 4) in case some of selected players can’t or refuse to play. If situation requires this, Captain can also add new players to their team (e.g. at the beginning of match there is less than 8 players), however always just from EL playing teams and its Part.

Final result of EL All-Star Game (obviously not the most important thing ;)) will be determined by sum of points gained by all players of one Part (from both groups).

I think there is no possibility to agree date of such match between both teams which line-ups can be unpredictable, so the best idea seems to fix it as 10:00 Sunday (it looks like best time as there were no protests against admin date) one week or two weeks from last round’s admin date.

I hope I introduced my idea in a clear way, however if you have any doubts please do not hesitate to ask me :)

The most important thing is if you (especially top players) are interested in participating. It would be for us all, for good and interesting games and for gomoku (and EL) popularity! With no interest from players there is no sense to organize it.

What do you think? I’m waiting for you suggestions & support!

Kind regards,

2011-01-16 13:46:28 Marcin Wojtasiński (ohhhjasiu)
# 5312
Against the decision of the committee I want only to express that, despite the verdict, I'll watch the next game vlhfire, because his way of thinking is similar to the movements of the program.
I just need to learn that the decision of the committee is correct.
I greet opponents team and I think that the situation between us will be friendly again.
I greet, Martin.
Good luck in the next rounds.
2011-01-14 02:12:30 Mateusz Miśkiewicz (krmorph)
NEWS ! ! !
# 5279
Who know player : kuras ?
In the game can u offer draw, then he is crusherd.. :)
2011-01-11 16:04:54 Marcin Wojtasiński (ohhhjasiu)
To Mystartx
# 5249
Hello, I don't understand what your post mean... Is it kind of blackmail??? If yes i think that is so pathetic. Situation of your team's member will be decide by objective committee and then You can say something. Do You think that is everything all right when You talk about your ,,team leavin'" before results?? Regards, Marcin.
2011-01-11 15:21:30 Tomasz Matyja (mctruskawek)
RE: Results
# 5247
Season: 2010/2011, After round: 2 (2010-11-22 to 2010-12-12)

Sorry, doesn't matter
2011-01-11 13:58:13 Tomasz Matyja (mctruskawek)
# 5245
In Actual results

SD and MOC have got "0" in score. It's something wrong in statistic... We drawed our match
2011-01-11 00:36:52 Claudiu Hulea (vlh_mystartx)
My statement
# 5241
Hello all,

Sorry to have to bother. In the case that my team gets a negative verdict could not continue and the outcome of the game I see myself forced to leave the competition because of lack of fair play.

I wish you continued success.

This is my decision and I will not change.

Thank you for your understanding.

Claudiu Hulea
Valahia Team member
2011-01-10 23:41:07 Costinas Beniamin (vlh_dragon)
Our official statement.
# 5240
I write on fire's behalf, since he's in the army as from today (so is f4lc0n... according to finnish law). I think, as i've seen written here, that the moves which resemble to fire 6_8 (i don't know about other programs, because i don't have them) are not a good argument since they were FORCED moves (most of them). I seriously doubt that fire would use any programs. I see nothing more to say regarding this matter.

However, i have to add this mean remark.
I've seen some publicity about a show called "desperate housewives". Their attitude kind of reminds me of that commercial.
1st, they do everything they can so we can't have a full team (i will remember you, they refused any of my offers, which were not few, and this round had 4 weeks). I must admit, i made the stupid mistake of trusting in their fair play, and i've told them from the begining that the admin date is very bad for us.

2nd they grab the "cheater .... he killed kenny! you bastard!" thingy.

I am wondering (as i usually do) how far would you go for a meanless win against us ? How much nerve do you people have ? :)

I only have one request regarding the comitee. Don't judge as last year's kr - team mollo (which i have to bring into discusion) was far from being a fair decizion (no ... i didn't forget, and i am sure i am not the only one).
2011-01-10 20:02:57 Marcin Wojtasiński (ohhhjasiu)
Oh Yeah Squad
# 5226
Hello, its me - jas. If it's possbile i can analises too. I know, my RENLIB was doing after match with Valahia and only 2 hours, but it was last day of this round and i tried be fast... If committee give our team more time we can do RENLIB with 9 games of vlhfire when we think he played with programs... And i only please captain of Valahia - Adifek. Man, please - dont write to my friend in team with bad words on playok... I can paste here when You have talked with malutki3000 (ohlechista) and You say some really bad words... So try to be more friendly, is it possible? Thanks.
Regards, Jas.
2011-01-10 19:50:09 Adrian Czychowski (ohlechista)
# 5225
,,OH YEAQ SQUAD team is ready to analises if last is not much hard evidence. We can do everything, only say what. We can analise everyone move and show that is from program. Can be? " BY HENRY:If it's neccesary we can make library of other 2 games when it's possible that Fire used program. Regards OYS
2011-01-10 19:17:49 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: Try to be objective
# 5223

To be honest this is so hard to decide as hard the accusation is (I'm writing this before deep analyses of RenLib file).

As you all probably know proving playing the program with no hard evidence (eg. camera records) is almost impossible. The question is what shall be the level of similarities between program and real games to be suspicious? For some people 100% is not enough and for other 70% is fine.

I kindly ask you not to make the atmosphere worse than it should be. We need to find the solution and we know that it won't be fine and wise for some of you.

I'm still waiting for any Fire's statement...

Best regards,

2011-01-10 18:45:53 Attila Demján (ycattila)
RE: Try to be objective
# 5221
WTF again.

I don't state my comments in such way because I like fire more than you or anyone. It is just so ridiculous what you are doing right now. If anyone else would be in fire's place now whom I dislike, I still would say the same. Plus I know his skills enough I guess to be able to estimate objectively if he can make 8/8 against your team.

You can come here with your 20 friends and repeat that 8/8 means cheating and so on:)

Remeber that noone asked me to post my opinion here. It simply just disturbs me and others that such childish, ridiculous and useless accusations can be made by some player who can't stand losing normally as a respectful opponent.

The theory about your fiction would be acceptable, because everyone can have his/her own opinion about other players, but if you're so sure of the cheat, you should provide some normal proof instead of that renlib file which makes people laugh.
2011-01-10 18:24:30 Adrian Czychowski (ohlechista)
Try to be objective
# 5220
,, I have known that You will write opinion like this, because everybody know, that You and Fire are friends... But it have no sense, i can find a lot of friends (20 for example) and they will say that he play program, not because they like me, because this is true. Please, try to wait for decision committee"
2011-01-10 17:39:13 Attila Demján (ycattila)
RE: lol
# 5219
Ah thanks Ondik for writing this. I wanted to share my thoughts about it too, what are exactly the same as yours.
I won't repeat last message again. I really hope that the committee will be wise and decisive in this issue.

Btw I got rid of this all when I have read the following: " I want to show it, because he have done 8/8 points and thats really unfair - we losed 12/20."
(WTF??? I'd better not to make any comment about it...)

This sentence is totally repping the seriousness of this accusement.

OYS, stop acting like this, it makes all gomoku community and stuff so bitter...
Just accept losing, we all have to learn it.
(DT had no rude word after losing 31:1 to us, though it should hurt much more. Take them as an example of proper behaviour)

2011-01-10 17:35:38 Adrian Czychowski (ohlechista)
# 5218
So You think that will be fine when everybody will start to do 15 moves like program in every games? Yee - so it's really fair. May we should wait for committee's decision?
2011-01-10 15:59:38 Ondrej Nykl (pandik1)
# 5217
i know i have no say in this as i'm not even playing EL, but damn, this is so ridiculous that I couldn't help myself. Even if he was cheating, there's no way he can be accused based on this renlib file you created. Before every move he did I tried to think about the move myself and 80 % of time I'd play the same move he did.

Just look at your logic -> When he doesn't use fiver.. he uses connect 5 to confuse others. And when he doesn't use even connect 5.. he uses his brain to be totally safe so noone can accuse him! (and you forgot to mention you changed your mind about him using connect 5 - now you think he was using Tito) Have you ever thought about possibility, that he maybe just made the RIGHT moves which would everybody else do, because they were quite obvious? And because they were the best moves in those situations, programs also played them? If you want to accuse someone you have to come up with something REALLY obvious, not simple 1800 rank move sequences for god's sake!

By the way - everyone plays as program when putting fifth stone in a row. Think about it.
2011-01-10 09:42:43 Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)
RE: Language problems.
# 5213

I suggest Vlhfire (or Valahia captain) to make official statement regarding OH's accusation.

It could impact EL Committee decision and potential level of punishment (of course if applicable).

Kind regards,

2011-01-09 22:26 Adam Harmasz (ohhenryy07)
for Valahia's captain
# 5211
Dragon don't be angry, it's just for sure..., if fire didnt cheat you can be calm.
2011-01-09 22:18:55 Adam Harmasz (ohhenryy07)
RE: ,,Confirming"
# 5210
I agree with Lechista and rest players of OYS, jury should check it.
2011-01-09 18:44:50 Adrian Czychowski (ohlechista)
# 5205
Our Captain will confirm accusation as soon as possible, but we think it is not necessary according to the rules and in our opinion this should not stop the work of Committee, especially in the situation of last day of the current round
2011-01-09 18:18:18 Tomo Dernovšek (jezek_si)
RE: Valahia-Programmers
# 5203
I ask the captain of OYS to confirm/refuse the accusation of Ohlechista about cheating as soon as possible.

Please take into consideration also the rule 10.6.
2011-01-09 18:16:27 Adrian Czychowski (ohlechista)
Hello Again
# 5202
Hello again and thanks Maestro for your reasonable post!

First of all, I would like to apologize for my previous messages. You are obviously right that we shouldn’t use word “programmers” until there is no formal verdict in such a case.

However, please try to understand my emotions after lost match, having in mind the possibility that the fight could not be 100% fair.

Frankly speaking we hope that is not true, but in my opinion and in opinion of friends from team and other players, one of Valahia members played very similar to well-known programs – Connect5 and Fiver6_8. As a proof we published link to the RenLib file showing all similarities.

I know that according to the EL rules we should give you more examples, but there was no time for this and games in previous matches wasn’t matter of our interest. If necessary, we can send you materials from missing two games.

We kindly ask EL Committee to check our formal accusation. We believe that all EL games should be played fair and in a friendly atmosphere.

Finally, I would like to apologize once for some rude words, that were really unnecessary.

Waiting for the fair verdict.


Lechista and all OH YEAH sqad players
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