|2021-06-27 22:57:51 • Štěpán Tesařík (czpayroxid)|
Czech Payback D vs Humans-2015
|Humans didn't show up for the match, and their captain didn't have the decency to apologize in advance. Our team waited unnecessarily for 20 minutes.|
|2021-06-27 18:23:36 • Alexey Lebedev (wkstealth)|
Wake - Czech Payback C
|our opponents didn't come, we waited for 20 minutes|
|2021-06-03 19:31:22 • Peter Jonsson (peterjo)|
Match Luffarna- Czech Payback C
|We waited 30 min for our opponents but no one showed up.
Peter Jonsson, Captain luffarna
|2021-04-23 10:44:42 • Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)|
Humans - Cz Payback / To Jan Purkrábek
|Hi, Jan. My team will not play in this match. You can put the result 0-1, technical defeat, I will agree to it. Your team does not need to come to the game, so as not to lose Sunday time. Best wishes, Alexey.|
|2021-03-22 07:59:43 • Csaba Kamarás (owcsaba)|
|I officially send a complaint to Igor Eged via FB about the administrated result of OnlyWe - CzechPaybackE.|
|2021-03-06 10:15:02 • Jakub Roubíček (payraspberry)|
RE: Czech Payback E - 7up
|Sorry Mano Gyenei, you have true, that you officially offered on the website on 2021-02-13 8:50:06 a new date and time to play (2021-02-19 19:00), I thought that Match date was 2021-02-12, but I see that no now.|
|2021-03-06 08:55:21 • Jakub Roubíček (payraspberry)|
RE: Czech Payback E - 7up
|Mano Gyenei, isn't true, that I offered a date and time on FB on 2021-02-11 18:16 to play at next day (2021-02-12 19:00, I offered to your team to play in the next week on Friday and on Saturday at 17:20.
Isn't true that you officially offered on the website on 2021-02-13 8:50:06 a new date and time to play (2021-02-19 19:00).
|2021-03-05 20:29:06 • Manó Gyenei (7uptorpe)|
RE: Czech Payback E - 7up
|On 2021-02-10 I offered in the website to play at 2021-02-13. You said on Facebook, that your your team is not avaliable to play at this time. You offered a date and time on FB on 2021-02-11 18:16 to play at next day (2021-02-12 19:00). It is just a little bit more than 24 hours. It is impossible to organize the team during this short time. That was the reason why I offered first in the FB (2021-02-11 19:37). After I have not get an answer on FB, so I officially offered on the website on 2021-02-13 08:50:06 a new date and time to play (2021-02-19 19:00). Your next message on FB was on 2021-02-16. You have not respond on the website and have not shown up the offered date and time.|
|2021-03-03 23:59:18 • Jakub Roubíček (payraspberry)|
RE: Czech Payback E - 7up
|Manó Gyenei, are you kidding me? I apologized to you, that my team is not able to play on the Match time. I tried to agree the another date and you didn't respond. We wanted to play the match and we were waiting for your team in the gameroom on the offered dates on Saturday 27. 2. 2021 at 19:30 and on Sunday 28. 2. 2021 at 18:32 and your team not showed up.|
|2021-02-26 18:17:52 • Manó Gyenei (7uptorpe)|
Czech Payback E - 7up
|At 2021-02-19 19:00 we were in playfive and our opponents wasn't there. We waited 20 minutes.|
|2021-02-20 22:15:44 • Tatiana Volkova (1dalida1)|
Demons and Wizards - Thunderstorm
|Our opponents - Demons and Wizards could not play game today! they said reason, that Demons and Wizards have only 2 players for this match!|
|2019-05-29 16:47:47 • Yuriy Kraubner (yurius)|
Thunderstorm have 4 point
|Our team Thunderstorm must have 4 points. 3 points is mistake|
|2019-05-15 23:51:46 • Piotr Małowiejski (dt_angst)|
RE: IS WTTS match
At first, there was, in fact, a decision to prepare pairings based on a temporary draw, however, it was not explicitly decided that this match must be played during 8th or even 9th round.
As the match hasn't been played before the start of the 9th round and it was time to start the final round, pairings were prepared based on temporary draw once again. Short afterward, we had a discussion in the Committee, considering few different options, including canceling 9th round, prolonging it, changing pairings, etc. Finally, the Committee decided in voting to keep the things unchanged (in the meantime there was information that both teams finally agreed on a date and as we could see, they were successful).
I agree that we should act faster and also my apologies for this late information.
P.S. I don't think CET/CEST issue is of such importance to change the rules at the end of the season. I still don't understand how such misunderstanding could occur, especially in case of very experienced teams/captains.
P.S.2. Maybe some interesting competition for the funniest name for the Committee members?
|2019-05-10 20:04:05 • Sandra Jones (sandra)|
RE: IS WTTS match
let me humbly express my curiosity about another thing related to the incident between Inner Strength and Way to the Sun.
If my eyes do not lie to me, the EL rules have not been fixed yet and still say that all times are CET. It thus appears to me that some people just can't get off their lazy asses.
My question is this: How do the EL committee members deserve to be called and what kind of kick do they need to do what they should?
I humbly thank your for your kind attention and remain
Your obedient servant,
|2019-05-10 14:40:39 • Pavel Laube (kedlub)|
IS WTTS match
let me express my curiosity about the current situation with the IS - WTTS match. What I understood from the Committee decision after the round 7 is that following this well described crash it was decided to make an accommodating step towards both teams and allow them to play their match during the round 8 (which was also prolonged), while using temporary result for pairing. As exceptional as this decision was, I understood it and appreciated as a way to resolve the unlucky misunderstanding. Now the round 8 is over, even new pairing appeared for the round 9 and yet there is no result of the IS – WTTS match. So I am asking what happened? I don’t need to explain that every such exception has impact on pairing also for the other teams and the whole fairness of the competition and it is highly undesirable to prolong temporary solutions for the eternity. From what I can see (without knowing the private communication) it appears that both teams showed zero effort to actually play their match – which astonishes me even more knowing that Bromozel and Zoli sit themselves in the EL Committee and it should be their very responsibility to ensure the fair progress of the competition and compliance with the rules. So guys in EL Committee, what will be the solution?
|2019-04-12 17:34:34 • Sandra Jones (sandra)|
The incident between IS and WTTS
|A serious incident occurred last Sunday in the Gomoku Euroleague.
In a nutshell, the Russian team ''Way to the Sun,'' captained by Ilya Katsev (Bromozel), came to play their match against the leading team, namely the Hungarian team ''Inner Strength'' captained by the current gomoku world champion Zoltan Laszlo (Zoli), not at Central European Summer Time (CEST) as has been being customary for the period of the summer time since years ago, but an hour later, at Central European Time (CET) as still formally stipulated in the Euroleague rules, and, finding no opponents, later attempted to claim a victory by walkover despite perfectly knowing that the Hungarian team had come an hour earlier in full accordance with the common practice.
I very extensively discussed the incident with both sides, in particular with Zoltan Laszlo and Gergo Toth on the Hungarian side as well as with Ilya Katsev and Denis Kachaev on the Russian side, and decided to write a detailed article about the incident to reflect my knowledge of the facts as well as my impression about the real motive of the Russian team. My aim is twofold: (i) to help the Euroleague committee take a decision and (ii) to widely inform the gomoku community about what happened.
Here are the essential facts of the case:
(1) In the match date negotiations, held by means of the automated system on the Euroleague website, the teams were unable to reach any agreement despite a number of offers and counteroffers, so the match date was set for the admin date, Sun 7 Apr 19:00. Clocks in Europe changed a week before the admin date.
Here it needs to be noted that since years ago, match times shown on the Euroleague website have been being interpreted as the Polish/Hungarian/Czech times, that is, as CET in the winter time period and as CEST in the summer time period, but the rules still formally stipulate that all times have to be interpreted as CET, with no provision being made about CEST. I quote from the rules:
''6.3. All offers must be written in CET time format, in seasons played at playok.com site the part of the offer has to be the room of playok.com where the match will be played.''
''6.9. ... There are three groups with starting times to be used as admin date: 15:00, 17:00 and 19:00 CET respectively.''
As these clauses contradict the common practice, they are a dead letter for the purpose of interpretation of times. Dead letter is a well-known term in the English-speaking countries and is defined as follows: ''A statute, law or ordinance that is no longer enforced but has not been formally repealed.'' (https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/dead+letter)
The term ''dead letter'' originated centuries ago and, for example, was used in 1840 by Her Britannick Majesty's Principal Secretary for Foreign Affairs Lord Palmerston in a famous letter to the Minister of the Emperor of China. In that letter Lord Palmerston explained that putting a dead letter in force by the Chinese leadership against British citizens without a proper notice was one of the reasons for hostility measures taken by Great Britain against China. I highly recommend reading that historic document, for it is not only an excellent explanation of how to deal with dead letters and why, but also a great example of excellent writing. Here is a link to the document: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Lord_Palmerston_to_the_Minister_of_the_Emperor_of_China
(2) On Sat 6 Apr Ilya made a post on the Euroleague forum: ''We will play in admin date, tomorrow at 19:00 CET (21:00 Moscow time).''
Posting the match date on the forum is a standard practice to deal with a well-known bug on the Euroleague website: Sometimes the schedule shows a wrong match date, and when this happens, one of the captains usually posts the correct match date on the forum. This was exactly the case for the match between ''Way to the Sun'' and ''Inner Strength,'' as the schedule showed a wrong starting time, namely 10:00.
The Moscow time, specified by Ilya in the brackets, corresponds to 20:00 CEST, thereby leaving no doubt as to what time was meant.
The forum, however, is practically not read, and Ilya did not announce the match on the popular gomoku forum vk.com/gomoku, which he often uses to announce interesting matches of his team.
(3) The Hungarian team arrived at 19:00 CEST and, finding no opponents, left after half an hour of waiting. In the game room chat, I told the Hungarians that the Russians might have forgotten about the recent time change in Europe, but the responses I got indicated that the Hungarians were not willing to wait. (In this article, I refer to the Hungarian team as ''the Hungarians'' despite that they have some foreign players as well.)
(4) Shortly before 19:30 CEST, I sent private messages via vk.com to two players of the Russian team, namely Ilya Katsev and Mikhail Kozhin. In the messages, I asked what was going on, and told that the Hungarians had been waiting already for half an hour. Ilya was offline, while Mikhail was online, but did not instantly read my messages. Right after I sent them, I checked the rules and instantly spotted the problem.
(5) At 19:40 CEST I informed Zoli that the rules say the times have to interpreted as CET. He immediately responded that this is against the common practice and that his team had thus already won by walkover.
(6) At 19:49 CEST I got a response from Mikhail, ''Hi! Our captain needs to be asked :) I am not playing today :)'' The response was made about 10 minutes after Mikhail read my message. Ilya remained offline.
(7) At about 20:00 CEST the Russian team showed up. I urged Zoli to make his team come, but he refused and said he was almost sure that the Russians had done the whole thing on purpose.
(8) The same evening Zoli and Ilya made walkover reports against each other on this forum, as you can see below. As you see, these reports were followed by a heated exchange of messages: Ilya stuck to the rules, whereas Zoli called the relevant rule dead and claimed that the Russians had done the whole thing on purpose. Both captains continued insisting on a victory by walkover.
To me, the most serious question is whether the Russians and, in particular, Ilya had bad intent in advance, i.e., whether they masterminded the whole thing. Exactly how it happened that they did what they did?
In an attempt to find out the truth, I extensively discussed the issue with Ilya Katsev (on vk.com) and Denis Kachaev (on piskvorky.net) the same evening.
Below are the essential statements made by Ilya in my conversation with him. (In this article, I always quote Ilya as translated by me from Russian.)
(i) ''I did not decide to exploit anything, I really did not know that clocks in Europe periodically change. To be exact, I did not remember when they change.''
(ii) ''I did not even know that there is a winter time in Europe. In Russia, winter time had long ago been abolished. I thought it had been abolished everywhere.'' (Note that this contradicts to statement (i), which says that Ilya merely did not remember when clocks change.)
(iii) ''I wrote on the forum because the schedule indicated 10:00. This is a website bug.''
(iv) ''I checked the rules before the match. Before I did this, I thought that we (the Euroleague committee) had changed CET to Prague time in the rules. But it turned out we had not. So I negotiated the match date in terms of CET.''
(v) ''But we had no intent to trick. I just did not check about the time change.''
(vi) ''The time difference at the start of the round was two hours, and later I did not check whether clocks in Europe had changed since then. If I had noticed that clocks had changed, I would definitely have sent a question to Zoli to clarify the match time.''
(vii) ''In our team chat, CET started to be discussed at 21:27 MSK'' (i.e., half an hour after the Russians came to play the match). ''The first to write about CET was Kozhin.''
(viii) Ilya's statement in response to my question what made him check the rules before posting the match date on the Euroleague forum: ''I simply wanted to write when we would play, and I wanted to write in the same terms as in the rules.''
(ix) In response to my question whether he did not check the rules before making date offers: ''Exactly, and this is why I checked the rules afterwards. I checked the rules to ensure that the time I was offering to Zoli and the time I was telling my teammates in the MSK format was the same time.'' (Note that this contradicts to statement (vii), where Ilya provides a different explanation of why he checked the rules.)
(x) Ilya's statement in response to my question why he added the Moscow time in his post, but did not do so in his previous analogous post: ''People do various things for no reason. I simply wrote in this way, and I found it natural - CET for Europeans, MSK for Russians. I do not know why I did not write the MSK time in my previous post. At that time, the match date was discussed on vk.com, and I may have subconsciously thought that all Russians already knew the match date.''
(xi) ''Zoli is terribly wrong in believing that we had bad intent. I strongly dislike his behaviour and will change my opinion about him.''
Below is a conversation part in which Ilya and I talked about how he had managed to avoid similar incidents in previous seasons (as translated by me from Russian):
Sandra: Am I right in understanding that in all matches of the previous season, you interpreted the times shown in the automated match date negotiation system as CET even when the time in Central Europe was CEST?
Ilya: I think I interpreted as ''European time,'' and for most part of the season I had no doubts what the difference between that time and Moscow time was. As I said, before this round I did not remember which term is used in the rules - Prague time or CET.
Sandra: How is this relevant?! The rules have not changed since the previous season. I am asking you about your actions in that season. If the rules did not change and you actions changed, then it is you who is the crook.
Ilya: о_О I always act in accordance with the rules. I may not necessarily know them, and I may mix up something in them, but I never intentionally violate the rules.
Sandra: That is, in the previous season you acted in accordance with the rules as they formally stood, bringing your team at CET even when the Europeans had CEST?! Do I understand right?!
Ilya: To be honest, I even thought that CET coincides with CEST (in the summer). At least this is how I understood Zukowski five years ago, when a similar incident occurred.
Sandra: In the previous season, exactly how did you deduce the MSK time at which you had to bring your team, from the match time indicated in the automated match date negotiation system?
Ilya: As I said, I interpreted the latter as abstract ''European time'' and almost always had no doubts what it was. Moreover, for many matches (e.g., for the last two) we did not use the automated system to negotiate the match date.
Sandra: Exactly how did you find the difference between that European time and MSK time? What did you use to find the difference?
Ilya: I do not remember. I used different ways. Probably I knew what time was in, for example, Prague. And, for example, this round I decided to investigate the issue and looked at the rules. There a precise algorithm is written: One has to come to play at CET. Probably I previously often looked at the rules and used CET.
I asked Ilya whether he could agree to give access to his team's chat to some reputable person for the purpose of verifying that the team had had no bad intent, and Ilya responded, ''Of course I won't. How dare you?''
Ilya also said he would support the idea to play the match later, but added that his teammates were unsure.
Now I would like to describe my discussion with Denis Kachaev. (In this article, all quotes from him are given as translated by me from Russian.)
He initially was in excellent mood, showing his joy by smiles and phrases including, ''The Hungarians are getting zero this round :) ,'' and emphasising that the Hungarians had to come at CET.
My very first question was, ''Did your team do this on purpose?''
His response was, ''F*ck knows.''
However, after I told him that everyone thought that the Russians had done this on purpose, he reacted differently, ''How can you talk about it, it is laughable, of course that's not true, bullsh*t.''
I explained that I strongly suspected that Ilya had masterminded the whole thing, and I made it clear that if this is true, then it is really bad.
In response, Denis said he (Denis) himself had not been aware of the recent time change in Europe, and added that in his opinion, the match needed to be re-scheduled to be played at a later date.
Denis further said, ''It is bad that this happened. It was not our intent. It happened accidentally.''
What can we deduce from the known facts and my conversations with Ilya and Denis?
First of all, I find it hard to believe that Ilya had such a vague idea about time in Europe and the common practice of interpreting match times on the Euroleague website, and here is why:
(i) Ilya has been captaining Euroleague teams since ages ago, and he negotiated, played, and watched heaps of Euroleague matches. For example, one of the matches played last season by his team ''Way to the Sun'' in the summer time period was against ''Estonian Penguins,'' and that match was played at CEST, as can be easily verified by comparing the statistics on the game server (piskvorky.net) with the schedule page of the Euroleague wesite in the Internet archive (web.archive.org).
(ii) Ilya frequently travels to Europe and played in about a dozen of live tournaments in Czechia, Poland, and Hungary, which are countries that use CET/CEST. Some of these tournaments were played in the winter time period (e.g., the Hungarian Meijin Tournament 2018 and the Polish championships of 2015, 2016, 2017), and some - in the summer time period (e.g., the world championship of 2017 and the team world championship of 2018). According to his words, Ilya also often makes business trips to Europe and, in particular, sometimes works in Berlin.
(iii) The last change of clocks in Moscow dates back to 2014, and it has been a few years since then for Ilya to get used to the time difference between Moscow and Central Europe being two hours in the winter and one hour in the summer.
(iv) In March 2017, Zukowski made a post in the Euroleague thread on vk.com/gomoku to warn people about the time change in Europe, and Ilya replied, ''Michał, we have decided to change time in the rules to Prague time (instead of CET/CEST) :)'' This indicates that Ilya read Zukowski's post and had a good idea about the common practice.
(v) The other Russian captains successfully manage to avoid similar incidents despite having less experience in the Euroleague and less travel experience. The last similar incident in the Euroleague occurred about five years ago.
(vi) The explanations provided by Ilya to me look very dodgy for many reasons. As I wrote above, Ilya swings between claiming he was not aware that clocks change at all, and claiming he did not remember when clocks change. At two different points of the conversation, he provided two different explanations of why he looked at the rules before making his post. Furthermore, despite my clear and precise questions he failed to clearly explain how he had deduced the Moscow times of his matches in the previous season, at one point even saying, ''I do not remember.'' He used the word ''probably'' in his statement, ''Probably I previously often looked at the rules and used CET,'' and it is hard to believe that he did not really remember his past actions.
Thus I clearly feel dishonesty, but, on the other hand, well knowing the players of the Russian team, especially Ilya Katsev himself, Denis Kachaev, Mikhail Kozhin, and Andrey Litvinenko, I find it very hard to believe that they, all of a sudden and entirely unprovoked, would plan in advance to try to win by walkover, conspiring all together. They love gomoku. In this particular situation, it is especially hard to see any possible motivation to win in this way, as the Russian team had practically lost any chance to win the title. Any reasonable person would see that an attempt to win in this way would definitely result in a scandal and reputation losses. And if the Russians had truly intended to win by walkover, Ilya and Denis would probably not have signaled their consent to re-schedule the match.
I see only the following realistic hypotheses of what really happened with the Russian team:
Hypothesis 1: The Russians simply forgot about the time change and then, after the ''match,'' came up with a cover-up in order to avoid a loss by walkover, pretending to have been unaware of the common practice and to having used the rules as a guidance. I am afraid I unwillingly gave them the idea of such a cover-up, as I somewhat mindlessly told Kozhin at 19:49 CEST (right after his response to my initial messages) what the rules say. And, as I wrote above, according to Katsev it is exactly Kozhin who started talking about CET in the team chat.
Hypothesis 2: Ilya or the Russians as a team masterminded the whole thing, being provoked by rejection of all their match date offers and/or by huge inconvenience of the match date. I quote Ilya Katsev: ''This day is extremely inconvenient for us. I even was unable to come. And Zoli had rejected all my offers and had been offering this day. That is, he had not hesitated to use the letter of the law for his purposes.'' Denis Kachaev also mentioned tough match date negotiations. Zoli gave me the log of the match date negotiations, confirming they had been tough indeed, with 8 offers being rejected. The Russians may have wanted to retaliate for what they saw as abuse of the rules, namely the admin date rule, and thus may have had any of the following purposes in mind:
(2a) To make the Hungarians wait one hour,
(2b) to win by walkover,
(2c) to re-schedule the match for a more convenient day.
Hypothesis 3: A mixture of negligence and lack of good will. For example, the Russians forgot about the time change and were going to come at 21:00 Moscow time, as they normally would in the winter time period, and then Ilya realised that clocks had changed, but decided to simply let the situation happen, opting to stick to the letter of the rules. His motivation may have been a desire to punish the Hungarians and/or unwillingness to admit his own mistake and tell his teammates to change plans.
Which of the above three hypotheses is more likely?
I cannot exclude any of them, but Hypothesis 1 seems to me to be more likely than the others for the following reasons:
(i) The mere timing of the incident - it happened just a week after the time change.
(ii) Subtle psychological clues in my conversations with Ilya and Denis point in the direction of Hypothesis 1.
(iii) Hypothesis 1 assumes less evil, is simpler, and is thus more consistent with the spirit of Occam's razor.
(iv) I guess that if Ilya had realised his mistake before the ''match,'' but had merely not wanted to admit his mistake and tell his teammates to change plans, he would probably have tried to reduce the mess by, e.g., directly informing the Hungarians about the intent to enforce the rule.
(v) In general, comparing bad intent to attempting to cover up negligence, I would say the second thing is a much more Russian way.
Ilya's post, made one day before the match, seems to well fit Hypothesis 1. In that post Ilya used the abbreviation CET just like in his previous analogous post and also specified the corresponding Moscow time just like in an analogous post made in 2017. I guess that if Ilya had made his post with bad intent, he would probably have concealed the Moscow time to avoid prematurely alarming the Hungarians.
Ilya also told me, ''The irritation is not due to them coming an hour earlier, but due to them leaving for the purpose of getting a point without playing.'' I think that this irritation explains why Ilya started claiming a win by walkover after the ''match.''
Could the Hungarians have waited for one hour? Matches normally last a few hours, and it is hard to exactly say in advance when the match will end, so the Hungarians must have allocated a few hours for the match in their plans. Although the Hungarians wanted to play an hour earlier (at 18:00 CEST) as I can see in the match date negotiation log, I think that having to wait per se probably was not the critical issue for the them.
I think the real critical issue for the Hungarians was different: They apparently felt sure that at any rate, they had been disrespected by the opponents. Be the disrespect in the form of bad intent or merely negligence to ensure coming at the right time, it is still disrespect. When I suggested in the game room chat that the Russians might have forgotten about the time change, I got negative responses from the Hungarians. Later, Zoli wrote on the Euroleague forum, ''... we left because we are not clowns to wait for one hour ...'' More or less well knowing Zoli, Gergo, and the Hungarian players in general, I know that respect is one of the central things for them, and dismiss the idea that the Hungarians simply wanted to earn a point without playing. After all, they were 2.5 match points ahead of the Russians. The Hungarians want respect and a serious professional approach towards themselves and gomoku.
Now I would like to state my conclusions from my investigation.
To the Russian team and Hungarian team: Please do not demonise each other. Although I cannot exclude that the Russians masterminded the whole thing, they do not appear to have done so. They rather appear to cover up their negligence. And the Hungarians did not leave just to earn a point without playing.
To the Euroleague committee: Clean the rules from all dead letters and inaccuracies. Concerning the present case, enforcing the dead letter or using the dead letter as an excuse to force the Hungarians to play the match against their will is a no go. If I were to decide on the case, my decision would be the following: As a form of respect, I would officially give the Hungarians the right to take a point by walkover, but friendly ask them to agree to play a match and to make one or a few match date offers, whatever they can. The Russians would then have to take it or leave it.
To all players: Learn a lesson from this incident. Be respectful to your opponents, which includes ensuring that you come to play at the right time. And do not prematurely demonise people.
|2019-04-08 09:58:42 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|Zoli, you are very suspicious about us, but you are wrong, we planned to play as usual, at 21:00 Moscow time and did not know that your time has been changed.
But what about you? I think that you wrong not only from the rules point of view but also because of fair play principle. Why you leaved the site and did not wait us? It is absolutely clear for me that you have tried to get one point without playing.
|2019-04-08 03:42:38 • Zoltán László (bwzoli)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|1. It takes a couple of seconds to write a couple of sentences - we are arguing here for hours already)
2. You did it on purpose - everything is indicating it
3. Common sense - Humans and Thunderstorm as example
4. EL tradition and usage / dead rule
|2019-04-08 03:26:37 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|I'm sorry that I've answered with offer and without warm greetings but I just too busy now
You may not believe me, but anyway:
1. I've wrote on forum one day before the match about its time
2. We came at this time
3. This is the correct time in according with the rules (and you knew it)
4. Your team was not here
These are the facts
|2019-04-08 03:18:33 • Zoltán László (bwzoli)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|Well, I could have informed you about the time changing myself, but unfortunately, to my message starting with "Hi!" nothing but a counter-offer was the answer, so I could have only replied to myself with it, which sounds silly. The precise definition is totally irrelevant, I'm sure you were aware of it, and we left because we are not clowns to wait for one hour, plus stay there +1hr, when you did not attend on purpose. You want to convince me that it was a misunderstanding because russians do not know about CEST, but as I've stated before, I do not believe it, nor do my teammates.|
|2019-04-08 02:54:07 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|To be honest I personally not sure about the precise definition of CEST. For example, I don't know either it doesn't exist at winter or it coincides with CET in winter? Some years ago we also had summer time in Russia but not now. And I know that in Europe this shift also will be canceled in the next years. So yes, we only know that there is summer and winter times in Europe and (probably) they still have difference equal to one hour. But I'm pretty sure that almost nobody knows the name CEST. I know it only because of EL and the fact that we were late on our match 5 years ago, you can read about it lower in this topic.
I don't know how Humans-2015 started their match at CEST time, may be they discussed it with their opponent when they choose the date? I think that it is quite polite to inform your opponents from Russia that your time is changing during this round. We didn't know about it, probably I can google it, but I didn't. In the beginning of the round the time difference was 2 hours between Russia and Europe and we planned to play in admin date, as in previous rounds, at 21:00 by Moscow time.
You decided to leave but you know that we are going in according with the rules. You supposed that we made it (to come at 21:00 in Moscow time) on purpose, but you are wrong, we just did not know that now time is different. But! We know now, that you leaved on purpose, trying to get one point without playing. And this is definitely far from fair play so I see nothing unfair when you will get zero points here.
|2019-04-08 02:36:37 • Zoltán László (bwzoli)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|Ilya, you are a respected member of the gomoku community, matter of fact you are the current chairman of the Gomoku Committee and you really want to tell me that nobody knows about CET - CEST in Russia? How come that Humans-2015 and Thunderstorm both attended the match at the agreed date? I don't believe you, and I think this is simply ridiculous. This is morally at least quiestonable, also. Plus, this is unworthy of EL, this is far not the best way to "win" a match, especially when you have such players in your team. The winner of the match is INNERSTRENGTH.|
|2019-04-08 02:18:09 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|In Russia nobody knows about CEST.
And also in EL rules nothing written about CEST.
Moreover, in EL rules even CET appeared only couple of years ago, before it was some "Kurnik time". So nothing about "years".
> In my personal opinion it was not a quite noble act, but anyways, the date was 19:00 and you did not attend the match, thus we won by walkover.
But the opinion of our rules is different and we won this match.
|2019-04-08 02:07:09 • Zoltán László (bwzoli)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|The fact that you did this on purpose, however, is not quite irrelevant.
You play EL for years, you know about CET - CEST, everyone knows about it, actually. Matter of fact, the rule that all matches must be arranged in CET is dead - both EL tradition and current practice ignore it straight; all teams except WTTS had accepted it and played their matches in this round, you can check it. According to you, all matches were played one hour earlier in this round, (and will be played in next rounds as well, I bet) so everyone violated this rule? Nah, we all know about CET and CEST, including you and I'm pretty sure that you did what you did on purpose, yet I just don't know what the actual goal could have been, since we are 2.5 points ahead. In my personal opinion it was not a quite noble act, but anyways, the date was 19:00 and you did not attend the match, thus we won by walkover.
|2019-04-08 01:30:58 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|Zoli, it is irrelevant. You have CEST, we have russian time zone, so what?
Should we use Moscow time instead of CES? I think that no. Rules are rules and rules says that the admin date is 19:00 CES, so this is +:- for us.
|2019-04-08 00:47:09 • Zoltán László (bwzoli)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|The admin date was 19:00, we waited 30 minutes for you to come, it is CEST in almost all European countries, including Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia and so on. You came at 20:00 and you claim walkover. I am pretty sure you exactly knew that we have CEST, you posted here one day before the match that we play at 19:00 CET - nobody reads this forum almost, especially not few hours before the match. You declined all offers of mine, thus 19:00 admin date remained, though the site indicated 10:00. It all looks like you did everything on purpose and try to achieve the match point this way. I'm very sorry about it and also sorry to miss such a match, but the admin date was 19:00 and only our team attended the match, thus we won by walkover.|
|2019-04-07 21:46:06 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|I mean 19:00 CET|
|2019-04-07 21:45:25 • Ilya Katsev (bromozel)|
RE: IS - WTTS walkover
|Sorry, but the situation is opposite. We came at 19:00 and you did not, so the result is +:- for us.|
|2019-04-07 20:29 • Zoltán László (bwzoli)|
IS - WTTS walkover
|WTTS have unfortunately not arrived till 19:20, thus it is +:- for IS.|
|2019-02-02 16:22:10 • Alexey Mikhaylov (off_minor)|
RE: "Humans-2015" - "Piece of cake." - 1:0
|We're sorry, friends, but it's impossible. We're working people, family people, et cetera. We are gathered here today, postponed their business, but the play was not with anyone.
It was your day, your time. Your captain's proposal.